Week 8 Queries

This forum is for queries and related discussions with respect to the Sanskrit Webinar Class conducted by Dr Varun.

Re: Week 8 Queries

Postby jazirae » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:13 am

Hi Varunji and everyone!

The Sutra list and subsequent explanation seem to contain a discrepancy: आदिर्ञिटुदवः and (ञिटुडवः). There is a different "d" in each reference. Which 'd' is correct?

I also would like to know how we should know that टु does not refer to the row in the alphabet. Let me guess: since डवः is plural, it is including टु as 'like itself' (i.e. a syllable, not a row of letters). If it meant "the टु row of letters and the syllable डु", then डु would be singular. Is that correct?

However, if that is correct, it doesn't help with sutra 4, तुस्माः.

Am I correct that डु would not refer to a row in the alphabet since it is not the first letter of any row?

Thank you!
Jazirae
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Re: Week 8 Queries

Postby jazirae » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:54 am

Why is 'j' used instead of 'c' in उपदेशेऽजनुनासिक इत् ?

Maybe I missed the explanation, sorry.
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Re: Week 8 Queries

Postby VarunKhanna » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:47 am

ckpatel wrote:Hello Varun ji!

Your assertive, clear and patient way of taking the students on the path of Sanskrit grammar learning is simply commendable! At times the pace may seem slow, but given the number of students and that too with varying background, and mostly novice (like me) as far as Sanskrit grammar is concerned, is totally justifiable! Keep it up!

Now, having reached the end of it-samhna-prakaranam, a question comes to my mind -

Couldn't the sutra 1.3.2 upadeshejanunasik it have been just upadeshejanunaski lopah ? That way, the remaining sutras - 1.3.3 to 1.3.8 could remain exactly the way they are, and the last one 1.3.9 tasya lopah been completely eliminated?

Thanks,
Chandu


Dear Chandu ji,

Hari Om!

This is a great question. As you start learning more and more of पाणिनि's सूत्रs, these kinds of questions start coming up (ie, "Why didn't he say it like this?"). Yes, लोप could directly be stated for the fist सूत्र and taken as an अनुवृत्ति for the following सूत्रs, as you mentioned. But then the particular letters that directly get लोप, according to your suggestion, wouldn't have a name. Without a name, they could not easily be used later to indicate things. For example, in this week's class, we saw "इदितो नुम् धातोः". This सूत्र very easily identifies इदित् ("that धातु that had short इ as an इत्-संज्ञा"), whereas if we had directly said to do लोप then it would take more syllables to describe it. पाणिनि is always interested in saving letters... so it would probably have saved more letters overall to name things as इत्, instead of directly doing लोप and only saving as many letters as "तस्य लोपः".

Hope this clarifies a little! The more you think about the all-encompassing vision of पाणिनि, the more you just sit there in awe of what he was able to accomplish...

All the best,

Varun
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Re: Week 8 Queries

Postby VarunKhanna » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:49 am

Ripersa wrote:in sutra 1.3.5 why does टु only mean the sound tu and not the entire ta varg as in the case of other sutras eg. 1.3.7 where chu means the entire varga. once again i am thoroughly enjoying your enlightening lectures. rishi


Dear Rishi ji,

Hari Om!

Very good question. There are a couple of ways to know why टु refers only to the sound टु in "आदिर्ञिटुडवः". Firstly, the fact that he uses टु to mean the entire टवर्ग later in "चुटू", to indicate it at the beginning of the उपदेश, indicates that elsewhere he wouldn't say टु in the same meaning. Secondly, the fact that टु in "आदिर्ञिटुडवः" is surrounded by ञि and डु indicates to us that along with ञि and डु, which are just sounds, टु should also be only a sound. There are other justifications, but I think this is enough for now. If you come up with ideas, do share!

All the best,

Varun
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Re: Week 8 Queries

Postby jazirae » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:49 am

Dear Varunji,

Why does "j" replace "c" to mean "ac" in upadesejanunasika?

Thank you,
Jazirae
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Re: Week 8 Queries

Postby VarunKhanna » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:22 am

jazirae wrote:Dear Varunji,

Why does "j" replace "c" to mean "ac" in upadesejanunasika?

Thank you,
Jazirae


Dear Jazirae ji,

Hari Om!

Since you found this thread, I'm assuming that you also found the answer to your other question from the Week 9 thread? As for this question, due to some sandhi rules, or phonetic changes that occur when certain letters meet, this change takes place. Mostly, sandhi means "what happens when you say something really fast". If you were to say "उपदेशे अच् अनुनासिकः इत्" really fast, then what naturally happens is codified by sandhi rules, and finally you are left with "उपदेशेऽजनुनासिक इत्". We will be learning these rules in the final quarter of the class, since this is the last step in the प्रक्रिया, or derivational process.

Good question!

Varun
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