Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Open Discussion Forum for general public to discuss and debate the fine nuances of Vedanta and its role in spirituality. Rules apply. Registration necessary.
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Open Discussion Forum for general public to discuss and debate the fine nuances of Vedanta and its role in spirituality. Rules apply. Registration necessary.

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:44 am

Hari OM

Wish you happy new year. Pray to the Lord to shower happiness, prosperity and spiritual well being to all during this 2011.

Pranams
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:44 am

Hari OM. Pranams.

Happy New Year Vigneshji, Muruganji ! I am back.
Muruganji, thanks a lot for co-ordinating Sadhana Panchakam forum so well during my absence. I will go through your enlightening discussions and then will resume...
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:10 pm

Hari OM
Welcome back Padmajaji. We missed your contributions and coordination and look forward to the same.
Pranams
Murugan
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:38 pm

Hari Om. Pranams.

Here is my reflection on these 2 instructions.

We seem to have two fields of experiences. One is in transactional plane outside e.g. what we are seen doing in the world. This is with respect to external viewers. The other field is inside, it is our mental plane, which is entirely our own. Nobody has access to it. It is this inside one that really matters to all of us, because "all experiences" really happen inside no matter what one is engaged in outside. In this inner world everybody is alone, as an experiencer, dealing with various strands of thoughts coloured by various experiences. In dealing with these thoughts one rejoices, weeps, fights, frustrates. To be happy and joyful, we need to be peaceful and at rest in this inner world. How can we achieve that? There is a say that "it takes two hands to clap" (meaning for argument it takes two entities). We are there inside alone but unfortunately we have taken on a role as an experiencer ( relative to "experiences"). To attain peace we need to disengage from experiences, we need to drop experiencer role. How can we do that? The phrase that really strikes me here is "single altar of deep contemplation", we need to be deeply rooted in single pointed meditation of this altar, you may call it Supreme Self, Scripture, God or our Guru. In deep reverance with steady rock solid faiith we need to meditate all the time. When we thus become joyfully alone we become "best company" for many others and a blessing for the world.
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:15 pm

Hari OM
Thank you Padmajaji for the wonderful explanation which summarizes these two instructions nicely.
Pranams
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:39 pm

Hari OM. Pranams.

Vignesh ji, Murugan ji would you like to add anything on these instructions? otherwise we can proceed to the practical questions for our reflection. Here are the two that come to my mind. You can please add yours also. Thanks.

1. What is the difference between 'solitude' mentioned here and 'sleep'?
2. What is the state of 'no-mind'? Why would somebody choose to have 'no-mind' ?
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:24 pm

Pranams

When in Solitude, one is physically awake and not in sleeping state.
When the mind is calm and queit without any turbulence, its presence is not felt - No Mind state.

regards
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:30 pm

1What is the difference between 'solitude' mentioned here and 'sleep'?
2. What is the state of 'no-mind'? Why would somebody choose to have 'no-mind' ?

Hari OM

The different states of existence that we normally come across are Waking state, Dream state and Deep Sleep state. The fourth state known as Turia state is a meditative state where the consciousness is awake but the mind is at rest without any turbulence of thoughts. ( The TPS – thoughts per second – is zero). In this state we are one with ourselves. I guess that the solitude refers to this oneness state without the disturbance of any thought flow in the mind or No- Mind. In such a No- Mind state one can be established in Brahman and realise the sat chit ananda swaroopa of oneself.

Pranams
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:59 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

Thanks Vignesh ji and Muruganji for your apt and helpful answers. My reflection -

1. What is the difference between 'solitude' mentioned here and 'sleep'?

In both 'sleep' and 'solitude', mind is peaceful and at rest. However in solitude there is single pointed focus on altar of meditation, whereas in sleep there is ignorance. In solitude there is deliberation, alertness and awareness. Sleep is instinctive.

2. What is the state of 'no-mind'? Why would somebody choose to have 'no-mind'.

I liked the way Vignesh ji explained no mind state. (When the mind is calm and queit without any turbulence, its presence is not felt - No Mind state.).

We should choose 'no-mind' state because 'mind' is the cause of all our sorrows and 'no-mind' is the Supreme state of fullness and bliss.
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:02 am

Hari OM. Pranams.

Let's now discuss instructions 35 and 36. Muruganji, may I request you to please present instruction 35 and Vigneshji, can you please present instruction 36. Thank you.
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:06 pm

Hari OM
35 Purnatma susamiksyatam - Realise and " See" the All- pervading Self every where
In meditation, with a quiet - alert - vigilant mind, rise above all mental fluctuations and come to realize the Unique Experience of the One Divine Self. After this experience of the Timeless, come to ultimately live and constantly " See" this Ever present, Immutable Self everywhere. A mere subjective experience of the Self within is not a full realization; the Rishies repeatedly insist that the man of Self-realisation recognized the Self expressing in every form everywhere when his eyes are open! The world is holy to the true holy-man.

Pranams
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:28 pm

Pranams

Instruction 36 - jagadidam tadbadhitam drsyatam - Recognise that the finite world is a Projection of the Self

The effects are nothing but the cause itself in different forms. The finite world of equipments ( BMI) and the everchanging world of experiences( OET) are all projections, mere superimpositions, upon the Self, as the shine, the length, the hood, the tail and all other details of a serpent upon a rope!! The world of matter is but an extension of the Consciousness Supreme, as waves, bubbles, froth and foam are all nothing but the ocean and its expressions. All inclusive is Vedanta: world is not anything separate from the Reality: World of things and beings are a false vision of the Pure Self,when looked at through a disturbed mind. To recognise the plurality as but a projection upon the Self is to quieten the mind.

regards
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:58 pm

Hari Om. Pranams.

Wow..what a lofty definition of 'quietening the mind' ! To recognise the plurality as but a projection upon the Self is to quieten the mind.

Thanks Muruganji and Vignesh ji for posting. Let's now reflect and write our thoughts.
Murugan ji we will miss you....
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:09 am

Pranams

The world is holy to the holyman. If our mind is pure, we see purity every where. When Krishna asked Yudhistra to go around a town to find some bad , he could not locate anyone bad. Everyone was good to him since he was able to see only goodness. - vice versa for Duryodana. When he was asked to find a good man in the same town, he could not find any good due to his mental conditioning.

These instructions tell us the importance of tuning our mind to see God every where and appreciate his manifestation in different forms in the world.

regards
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:40 am

Dear Vignesh ji
Hari Om. Pranams.

Thanks for explaining beautifully with an example of Yudhishtir and Duryodhan that tuning mind to see God everywhere and appreciating his different manifestations is the message of these instructions.
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:00 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

Here is my reflection -

To be able to 'see' world as projection of 'Self' we first have to 'know' what 'Self' is. Currently our understanding of 'Self' is muddled up with our body, mind and intellect. The moment somebody utters word 'know' we think of it as an 'objectified experience' different from us. We start making efforts to understand it 'intellectually', 'emotionally'. What we really need to know is we can't know it that way. We need to stop all our efforts to know it as an object. Thus when mind is not preoccupied with anything, we will be ourself and we will 'realise' our own Self.

Ishavasya Upanishad says "All this, whatsover moves in this universe, including the universe, itself moving, is indwelt or pervaded or enveloped or clothed by the Lord. That renounced though should enjoy." Pujya Guruji while explaining this verse said that just understanding that everything is pervaded by Lord is not enough, you should cover this entire world with the "vision of God (knowledge)", that means look at this world as Lord only.

We normally exclude ourself when we say world and understand it as "what we perceive outside". However in Vedanta, world is "anything that is known to us as 'this' '(as an object)". Our BMI is also 'this' so it comes under world. Everything in world is moving and changing. Ja means jayate, ga means gacchati, coming and going is world but in between we have illusion that it is 'ta' tishthati that 'it stays' and that is why we give reality to it. Just like in ocean, waves rise and fall, bubbles come and go, froth happens and vanishes but they are not separate from ocean similarly world is not separate from Self. We see plurality because of giving reality to upadhis(names and forms).

Anywhere our sense organs go, mind goes, intellect goes, that is Lord(Self) this vision we need to cultivate.
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:37 am

Hari OM and Pranams Padmajaji and Vigneshji
What an wonderful reflections on the Self and BMI / World of Objects. Thank you.
By the grace of Lord I may get an opportunity to spend sometime at Chinmaya centre Hongkong today or tomorrow.
Pranams
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:51 pm

Hari Om. Pranams.

Muruganji, nice to see you stopping by here. Hope you had good visit to Hongkong CM.
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:58 pm

Hari OM. Pranams.

Here are some practical questions for our reflection. Kindly write your thoughts. Thanks.

1. How would seeing the "All pervading Self everywhere" affect our current transactional dealings?
2. Would the knowledge 'this world is mere projection' make us cold and detached towards world or more compassionate towards all beings?
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Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:13 pm

Pranams

When we can see the All pervading Self every where, our transactions will be more selfless and prayerful.

When we can see the world as a projection, we will give right value to the projections and deal with them appropriately.

regards
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