Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Open Discussion Forum for general public to discuss and debate the fine nuances of Vedanta and its role in spirituality. Rules apply. Registration necessary.
Forum rules
Open Discussion Forum for general public to discuss and debate the fine nuances of Vedanta and its role in spirituality. Rules apply. Registration necessary.

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:48 pm

Hari Om. Pranams.

Vignesh ji, very apt and helpful answer ! Thank You very much.
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:35 pm

Hari Om. Pranams.

My Reflection on practical questions -

1. How would seeing the "All pervading Self everywhere" affect our current transactional dealings?

If we see divinity everywhere we will feel very secure and happy. Everything is God (our own Self) so there will be abundance of Love, above, below, inside, out from all sides. There will be nothing to lose, nothing to gain, nobody to compete against, nothing to prove, nothing to fear. We will be full and content, swimming in joy and love. So we will do what a very happy man does ! We will distribute our joy and love to everybody.

2. Would the knowledge 'this world is mere projection' make us cold and detached towards world or more compassionate towards all beings?

World is 'mere projection' doesn't mean that world is imaginary. What we understood world to be, that thought, was imagination. We had a misconception and that is now removed. The five bhedas -

Jiva-Jagat
Jiva-Jiva
Jagat-Jagat
Jiva-Ishvaa
Jagata-Ishvara

will be gone ! We will have the right vision so we will feel towards world what we feel towards our own self. Unconditional Love !
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:06 pm

Hari Om. Pranams.

Let's now take up next two instructions for our study. Vignesh ji can you please post instruction 37 and I will post instruction 38. Thank You.
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:29 am

Pranams

I did not understand your answer for the second practical question i.e the 5 bhedas that you have listed. Kindly explain them for my better understanding.
regards
vignesh
vignesh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:25 pm

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:36 am

Pranams
37. Prakkarma pravilapyatam - Conquer the effects of deeds done in earlier lives by the present right actions

The past is beyond our control now. We can act only in the present. We might have acted wrongly, due to errors of judgement, and we are now to suffer their results. But they can be "cured" with the right antidotes: by initiating noble right actions now. Our Upasanas, prayers, worship study of scriptures, Tapas, meditations are all right actions to straighten the curvatures we had created in us by our own selfish and desire prompted activities in the past.

regards
Vignesh
vignesh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:25 pm

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:48 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

Ishvara created the world of objects (Jagat) from his own Self (same way as our mind creates dream world of mountains, roads, trains, sky etc. from itself). Ishvara then entered into the world as an experiencer(Jiva) (same way as our mind becomes 'dreamer' to experience 'dream objects'). Jiva(deluded Ishvara) looks outward through prism of his mind and sees Jagat, similar to how a dreamer sees the dream world.

So now we have a threefold division of Jiva-Jagat-Ishvara. This plurality can be summed up as 5 differences(bhedas) -

Jiva-Jagat (Difference between an individual experiencer and world of objects)
Jiva-Jiva (Difference between one individual experiencer and another)
Jagat-Jagat (Difference between different objects of the world)
Jiva-Ishvaa (Difference between an individual experiencer and the creator)
Jagata-Ishvara (Difference between world of objects and the creator)

It is the creator who is projecting 'inner world of thoughts'(jiva) and 'outward world of objects'(jagat) from 'His own Self'. He is the material and efficient cause like mind is the material and essential cause of a dream. Just like 'dream objects' and 'dreamer' is nothing but our own mind, so too all jivas and jagat is essentially Ishvara.

If a dreamer looks outside he sees dream world and gets afflicted by it (especially if it is a nightmare). Same way we too get afflicted by the world. If a dreamer turns inwards and gives up his identification with dream body, then the whole dream will fold away. He will understand that dream world and dreamer was projection of his mind. Similarly, we too need to understand that everything that we hear, touch, see, taste, smell is Ishvara. The mind that we consider our own is also part of this world (we know our thoughts as 'this'). It is also Ishvara. Pujya Guruji says - Cultivate the thought: “Divinity alone is present everywhere!” Feel the presence of God everywhere......

Now if we think one level deeper - who is Ishvara? He is the creator. Creator of what? Creator of 'Jagat' and 'jivas'. However if 'Jagat' and 'Jivas' is Ishvara, then where is the creation? (creation was mithya like a dream). Just like we don't call our mind 'creator of dreams', without 'upadhi of creation' we don't use the name Ishvara (Just like a woman won't be called a 'mother' if she hasn't given birth to a child). In His essential nature Ishvara is Brahman(our own Self).

Therefore Bhagvan Adi Shankara is telling us in these two instructions that "Realise and " See" the All- pervading Self every where. Recognise that the finite world is a Projection of the Self."

I don't know if I answered your question or not. I tried to the best of my knowledge. Please correct and suggest as needed.

vignesh wrote:Pranams
I did not understand your answer for the second practical question i.e the 5 bhedas that you have listed. Kindly explain them for my better understanding.
regards
vignesh
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:06 am

Pranams

Thank you for the very nice explanation.
regards
Vignesh
vignesh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:25 pm

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:52 am

Hari OM. Pranams.

38. Chitibalannapyuttarai Shlishyatam - Through wisdom become detached from future karmas

Of the past Karmas accumulated (Sanchita) those that have become mature to yield fruits determine our present (Prarabdha) and the balance is reserved for the future experiences (Agami). Through wisdom gained by the study of the scriptures, through Upasana and regular meditations, when we liquidate the ego-sense we will be able to stand as an unaffected "witness" in our life's ups and downs. Thus through the wisdom that I am not the "doer" (Karta) nor the "experiencer" (Bhokta)__in short, in the wisdom that I am not the ego (PFT), the experiencing individuality __learn to detach from the future Karmas. Without your willing cooperation Karma cannot touch you !!
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:56 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

Let us now reflect on instructions 37 and 38.
Please write your understanding and thoughts on these instructions. Thank You.
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:32 pm

Hari OM

Reflections on 37 & 38

The effect of the deeds done in the past is Fate. The truth of Fate is that it has no independent existence apart from Free-Will. Free-Will or Sankalpa-Shakti is the only single force or power, that we have in our arsenal to change any situation. Fate is the inevitable fruits of action which we had performed earlier, wielding this very free-will. Every action, without any exception, gets some results. Actions done earlier are like an arrow which has left the bow; now the course of that arrow cannot be changed, and that alone is fate, which really speaking is not an independent power, but is part of our free-will & its dynamics. Fortunately or unfortunately there is a time-lag between action and its result, and this varies. Some results are immediate and some come after a long time. The truth is that we are the creators of our 'fate'. Common sense demands that we face all situations with this understanding that we alone are the makers of every situation, and therefore we definitely have power to change the course of our life, with necessary wisdom, patience and hard, intelligent work, says Swami Atmananda.

So the wise prefer to act in love, they have love for God, as his very instrument, and live for his sake alone. Lord himself says in Bhagwad Gita, that "Yogahkarmasukaushalam".

Real wisdom implies knowing the real source of happiness. Wise people know about the completeness & divinity of their own self, so they are never worried, as to what situation will finally come. The locus of I is on their Self and not on the Ego, which gets affected by karmas. Even if we are not fully awake to our divine nature, then also it is easy to appreciate that happiness is not a destination we reach, but a state of mind with which we face the situations which come our way.

Pranams
User avatar
murugans61
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:09 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

My reflection on 37 & 38:

What strikes me most in these two instructions is "without our willing cooperation Karma cannot touch us !!".

It tells me that "I am not the product of my Karmas" ! I have a choice ! The choice that only we (human beings) have, due to our power of discrimination (Viveka, Right thinking). Just like we have a choice 'whether to let any person in our life or not' and 'how much to identify with that person'; we have a choice 'whether to let Karma affect us or not', and 'whether to be free from them altogether'. Yes, we can be totally free !

Our gross body, subtle body, the quality and texture of our mind, what we experience in our life, all these are product of our past deeds. Then how can we exercise our choice? What can we do? Is it too late to do anything? Adi Shankara tells us that with our "Present Right Actions" we can conquer effects of deeds done in the earlier lives. Pujya Gurudev uses a very potent word here to explain this. He calls it "right antidote". When a poisonous snake bites, the antidote given for it, is made from poison of that same snake. So "Karma" is antidote for "Karma". To develop antivenom they inject a very small dose of venom into some animal in the beginning and go on slightly increasing the amount injected over the period of time till tolerance is developed for that venom. Then they extract antibodies from the blood of that animal. "Satsang" (company of wise people, reading lives of Saints, reading scripture) is the antidote. When we administer this antidote in our life, we get 'right thinking'. Right thinking makes us do 'right actions in present' like karma yoga, upasanas, prayers, worship, tapas, meditation etc. (Satsangatve Nissangatvam Nissangatve Nirmohatvam Nirmohatve Nischalatattvam Nischalatattve Jeevanmuktih says Bhaja Govindam).

Antidote might cure snake bite, but fear of snake still remains. Likewise, with right actions we can develop 'immunity to effects of past deeds' (we learn the skill of 'right contact' with the world and 'right evaluation' of our experiences and learn to keep mind peaceful) however we can't get out of them altogether. The only way to get out of "past, present and future deeds" is by 'liquidating the ego-sense' (giving up doership and enjoyership altogether). The wisdom that I am not this finite experiencing individuality but an unaffected 'witness' of it all frees us altogether. If a prisoner who has done many crimes and who is awaiting a long list of punishments, dies suddenly, then his file gets closed because he is not there to suffer those. Likewise, if we give up our doership and enjoyership altogether (perfect surrender to Lord) then Karmas cannot touch us. We become free of all our past, present and future sins instantly and completely.
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:13 pm

Pranams

Thank you Muruganji and Padmajaji for very nicely explaining your views on these two instructions.
It is very true that the antidote of right karmas in the present is the medicine for our karmas and the wisdom not to identify with our ego is the solution to remove the fear of future.

regards
Vignesh
vignesh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:25 pm

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:02 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

Thanks Vignesh ji and Muruganji. I have following reflection questions. Kindly give your thoughts.

1. Is "Result of Action" also "an Action"?

2. What is the relationship between 'Action' and 'Knowledge' ? (e.g. can Actions create Knowledge and Knowledge create Actions)

3. Explain with an example of any one right action - how can we liquidate our sense of ego by doing that?
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:16 pm

Pranams

1. Is "Result of Action" also "an Action"?

The results of action is due to action.

2. What is the relationship between 'Action' and 'Knowledge' ? (e.g. can Actions create Knowledge and Knowledge create Actions)

To know, we have to make the action of study or listen etc. With the right knowledge, we can perform right actions.

3. Explain with an example of any one right action - how can we liquidate our sense of ego by doing that?

Puja is an example of right action. When we do puja, we surrender our ego to the Lord there by we can liquidate our ego.

regards
vignesh
vignesh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:25 pm

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:10 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

Thanks Vignesh ji for your beautiful answers.

Regarding Question 1 about 'fruit of action' I found this quote of Pujya Gurudev -

"If success you seek, then never strive with a mind dissipated with anxieties and fears for the fruits." In this connection it is very interesting to dissect carefully and discover exactly what the Sastra means when it says `fruits of action'. In fact, the reward of an action, when we understand it properly, is not anything different from the action itself. An action of the present when conditioned by a future time, appears itself as the fruit of the action. In fact, the action ends or fulfills itself in its reaction, and the reaction is not anything different from the action; an action of the present defined in terms of a future moment is its reaction. Therefore, to worry over and get ourselves preoccupied with the anxieties for the rewards of actions is to escape ourselves from the present and to live in a future that is not yet born."
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:49 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

1. Is "Result of Action" also "an Action"?

Pujya Gurudev says " 'Result of Action' is 'Action of the present' defined in terms of future moment" so we should not shift our attention from our present action. We should rather do it as best as we can !

*** Pujya Guruji once asked everyone "What would you do if you knew you would always succeed." Freeing ourself from results of action, makes us express our potential to its best instantly.

2. What is the relationship between 'Action' and 'Knowledge' ? (e.g. can Actions create Knowledge and Knowledge create Actions)

Pujya Guruji gives one example how Action and Knowledge influence each other. A man listens to some discourse and gains knowledge that 'getting up early is good'. This knowledge turns into action and he starts getting up early. After few days once he doesn't get up early. He feels bad. Next day he gets up late again. He feels nothing about it. Third day he doesn't get up early and tells himself 'getting up early doesn't give my body enough rest, so it is bad to get up early' . So his lazy actions turned into warped knowledge. Thus action and knowledge influence each other mutually.

3. Explain with an example of any one right action - how can we liquidate our sense of ego by doing that?
If we keep reading and reflecting about noble things and associate with noble beings, our mind may think lowly thoughts due to earlier impressions but we are unable to implement them because of what we learnt and they fizzle out eventually without turning into an action.
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:10 pm

Hari OM

Thank you Vigneshji and Padmajaji for your nice answers for Q1 and Q2 and also examples of right action ( Puja and Study of scriptures).
Yogasana and Pranayama is another example of right action. Asana is described by Sage Patanjali as " Sthirasukham asanam", a postion that is steady and comfortable. The asanas are meant to relax and enhance physical health. As the body becomes relaxed and comfortable, one's mind is available for Nidihityasanam without any distractions caused by physical discomfort.
Prnayama is regulation of the movement of air while breathing. The process of breathing is closely associated with the functioning of the mind. When one's mind is calm and relaxed, one's breathing tends to be deep and slow. By practising prnayama one can make one's mind calm and ready for nidityasan.

regards
User avatar
murugans61
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby Padmaja » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:34 pm

Hari Om. Pranams.

Thank you Muruganji for explaining how Yoga and Pranayama is helpful for nididhyasana.

Let us now take up the instructions 39-40 for our study. Muruganji can you please post instruction 39 and Vignesh ji can you please post instruction 40. Thank you.
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby murugans61 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:34 pm

Hari OM

39.Prarabdham tviha bhujyatam - Experience and exhaust the past actions that have started Prarabdham - Actions that have started to yield their results are called Prarabdha: and they are to be humbly lived through, in a silent sense of surrender, and thus exhausted. They are like the arrows that have left the bow- nothing can be done about them now; they have to exhaust themselves. Suffer them in silent dignity, with shameless courage, and patient heroism. Understand them as doses of sorrow that the Lord has to give us to mould us into His Form and Beauty. We suffer the pains that our doctors gives us in the knowledge that he is doing it only to cure us quickly.

Pranams
User avatar
murugans61
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Sadhana Panchakam Study Group

Postby vignesh » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:05 pm

Pranams

Instruction 40 - atha parabrahmatmana sthiyatam- Thereafter live absorbed in the Bhav, " I am Brahman" - Such a seeker who has realised that the Self within himself, is the One Self expressing as all forms and names, and that the same Self is the One enlivening Spark-of-Life manifesting through all forms - is fully awakened to the Infinite State Divine, and so has reached his Immutable goal. Having reached this State of Awakening it being Changeless and Infinite, Timeless and Undecaying, the Sadhak gets established permanently in this Experience Transcendental: his earlier state of limited sorrowful existence as an ego ( PFT) has ended for ever He lives absorbed in the Supreme Consciousness - his invidualised ego-sense has merged: just as a riven ends itself when it merges with trhe ocean; just a hail stone dissolves away to become the oceans round the world!! The discovery "I" ends: Brahman alone is.
"I am Brahman" is the one Bhav that comes to govern thereafter in all his actions, feelings and thoughts.It is not a slogan to prattle about, not a vanity to be screamed in the world; it is not a creed accepted but an attitude natural, ever echoing through all his performances in the world.

regards
vignesh
vignesh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:25 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Vedanta and Spirituality

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron