Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds Chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.
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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:23 am

HARI OM UMAJI, PRANAM.

I am very sorry.I don't have the holy reference gita book. Could you please tell me where is it available?I am very much thankful to you for iniating and encouraging
me to be in this forum.Yours,Meeraji's, murugangi's and all others postings are highly valuable to me.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:50 am

Hari Om Sathiavathiji. Pranam.

Holy Geeta Reference Book is by Pujya Swami Advayanandji and will be available in nearby Mission Centre.

I will post the Thoughts and Concepts tomorrow. And till that time you get that book, I will allot only the verses to you.

Regards

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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby meera » Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:04 am

Hari Om...


Verse 37

श्री भगवान उवाच

काम एष क्रोध एष रजोगुण समुद्भवः
महाशनो महापाप्मा विद्ध्येन -मिह वैरिणम || ३७||

Sri Bhagavan Uvacha -

Kama esa krodha esa rajogunasamudbhavah
mahaashano mahaapaapma viddhyena-miha vairinam ||37||

काम - kaam - desire
एष: - esha - this
क्रोध: - krodha - anger
एष: - esha - this
रजोगुण-समुद्भवः - rajoguna-samudbhavah - born of the active (Rajoguna)
महाशनः - mahaasahanah - all devouring

महा-पाप्मा - mahaa-paapma = all sinful
विद्धि - viddhi - know
एनम - enam - this

इह - iha - here

वैरिणम - vairinam = the foe


The Blessed Lord said :

37. It is desire, it is anger born of the "active", all-devouring, all-sinful; know this as the foe here (in this world).


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uma, maybe I misunderstand, but pls clarify, we are to first only post from Gurudev's commentary and then when you have compiled the 4 verses, then we reflect? With this understanding I do not add reflections to the posting from text, Uma.

Hari Om,
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:03 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Yes Meera, you are absolutely right.

For the sake of others, I will rewrite here.

First, we post the assigned stanzas, with word meanings and the meaning of the stanza from the Gita Text by Swami Chinmayanandji. So also, the assigned excerpts from Holy Gita Reference Book by Swami Advayanandji.

The posting of verses need not be in order and one may post as and when possible.

The verses and the excerpts is compiled and posted in order and then a request is made for reflections.

Regards

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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:10 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

This is on behalf of Sathiavathiji.

HGRR Thoughts and Concepts
37. What impels man to commit sin even against his wishes ?

Desire and anger impel man to commit sin against his wishes.

काम एष क्रोध एष रजोगुण समुद्भवः
महाशनो महापाप्मा विद्ध्येन -मिह वैरिणम || ३७||
kama esha krodha esha rajogunsamudbhavh
mahasano mahapapma vidhdyenmihavairinam
IT is desire, it is anger born of the "active", all devouring, all sinful, know this as the foe here (in this world) (3.37)

38. Define 'desire'

A constant agitation of the mind, expressing as an uncontrollable impatience to gain something, is called 'desire'. (3.37)


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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:09 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Here are the Verses 36-39 for our discussion. Please post your thoughts, your study notes, reflections on these verses.

Offering this garland of verses to you O Krishna with Love from all of us...please help us in our studies.
============================================================


Verse 36

अथ केन प्रयुक्तोऽयं पापं चरति पुरुषः ।
अनिच्छन्नपि वार्ष्णेय बलादिव नियोजितः ॥३६॥

Atha kena prayuktoyam papam carati purusah
Anicchann-api varsneya balad-iva niyojitah

अथ -Atha-new, केन - kena – by what, प्रयुक्तः -prayuktah – impelled, अयं -ayam –this, पापं - papam – sin; चरति -carati – does; पुरुषः - purusah – man; अनिच्छन -anicchan – not wishing, अपि - api – even; वार्ष्णेय - varsneya – O Varsneya, बलात् - balat – by force, इव - iva- as it were, नियोजितः - niyojitah – constrained.

But, O Krishna ( Varsneya), impelled by what does man commit sin, though against his wishes, constrained, as it were, by force?


Verse 37

श्री भगवान उवाच

काम एष क्रोध एष रजोगुण समुद्भवः
महाशनो महापाप्मा विद्ध्येन -मिह वैरिणम || ३७||

Sri Bhagavan Uvacha -

Kama esa krodha esa rajogunasamudbhavah
mahaashano mahaapaapma viddhyena-miha vairinam ||37||

काम - kaam - desire,एष: - esha - this,ध: - krodha - anger,एष: - esha - this,रजोगुण-समुद्भवः - rajoguna-samudbhavah - born of the active (Rajoguna),महाशनः - mahaasahanah - all devouring,महा-पाप्मा - mahaa-paapma = all sinful,विद्धि - viddhi - know,एनम - enam - this,इह - iha - here, वैरिणम - vairinam = the foe


The Blessed Lord said :

37. It is desire, it is anger born of the "active", all-devouring, all-sinful; know this as the foe here (in this world).

Verse 38

धूमेना व्रियते वन्हिर्यथादर्शो मलेन च ।
यथोल्बेनावृतो गर्भस्तथा तेनेदमावृतं ॥३८॥

dhumena vriyate vanhir-yatha-darsho malena cha |
yatholbenaavruto garbhastathaa tenedamavrutam ||38||

धुमेना - dhumena - by smoke, आव्रियते - aavriyate - is enevloped, वन्हिः - vanhih - ifre, यथा - yatha - as, आदर्शः - adarshah - a mirror, मलेन - malena - by dust, च - cha - and, यथा -yatha - as, उल्बेन - ulbena - by the womb, आवृतः - avrutah - enveloped, गर्भः - garbhah - embryo, तथा - tatha - so, तेन - tena - by it, इदं - idam - this, आवृतं - aavrutam -enveloped

38. As fire is enveloped by smoke, as a mirror by dust, as an embryo by the womb, so this (wisdom) is enveloped by that (desire or anger)


Verse 39

आवृत्तं ज्ञानमेतेन ज्ञानिनो नित्यवैरिणा ।
कामरूपेण कौन्तेय दुष्पूरेणानलेन च ॥३९॥

AAVRUTTHAM JNANAMETHENA JNANINO NITYAVAIRINA
KAAMARUPENA KAUNTEYA DUSHPOORENA ANALENA CHA
आवृत्तं ज्ञानमेतेन - Aavruttham Jnanamethena – Enveloped is wisdom,
ज्ञानिनोनित्यवैरिणा - Jnaninonityavairina-Constant enemy of the wise
कामरूपेण - Kaamarupena – In the form of desire
कौन्तेय - Kaunteya – O Son of Kunti
दुष्पूरेणा - Dushpoorena – which is difficult to be appeased
अनलेन च - Analena cha – like fire

Enveloped, O Son of Kunti, is ‘wisdom’ by this constant enemy of the wise in the form of ‘desire’, which is difficult to be appeased, like fire.

Poojya Gurudev continues to explain this stanza thus –
“ This stanza vividly explains to us that discrimination (Jnana) the capacity to distinguish the Real from the unreal, the permanent from the impermanent, the true from the false, which gives man his higher status in the scale of evolution – is the divine faculty that gets screened off from us due to our own greedy and insatiable desires (In Mahabharata “desire” is described as insatiable. “Desires can never be satiated by the gratification of desires. The more they are enjoyed, the more they grow, as fire by the pouring of ghee into it.”) . The pronouns in the previous stanza now stand clearly elucidated: the “discriminative capacity” in us (it-idam) gets screened off by the insatiable “desires” (by this – tena)”

In the next stanza “Bhagawan tells us which are the seats of ‘Desire’, which, by enveloping wisdom, forms the enemy of the whole world. The seat of the enemy being known, it is easy to kill it”


HGRR Thoughts and Concepts

37. What impels man to commit sin even against his wishes ?

Desire and anger impel man to commit sin against his wishes.

काम एष क्रोध एष रजोगुण समुद्भवः
महाशनो महापाप्मा विद्ध्येन -मिह वैरिणम || ३७||

kama esha krodha esha rajogunsamudbhavh
mahasano mahapapma vidhdyenmihavairinam
It is desire, it is anger born of the "active", all devouring, all sinful, know this as the foe here (in this world) (3.37)

38. Define 'desire'

A constant agitation of the mind, expressing as an uncontrollable impatience to gain something, is called 'desire'. (3.37)

39“Desire itself, under certain circumstances, gains expression as anger”. Explain

Whenever emotions for acquisition and possession of an object flow incessantly towards the object, the bundle of thoughts so flowing is called ‘desire’; while the same desire,when it gets obstructed from reaching its desired objects and gets refracted at an intermediate obstacle is called “anger”.


40. Shri Krishna uses three examples to illustrate the manner in which desire and anger veil one's reason and discrimination. What are the three examples and explain their significance.

धूमेना व्रियते वन्हिर्यथादर्शो मलेन च ।
यथोल्बेनावृतो गर्भस्तथा तेनेदमावृतं ॥

dhumena vriyate vanhir-yatha-darsho malena cha |
yatholbenaavruto garbhastathaa tenedamavrutam ||38||

As fire is enveloped by smoke, as a mirror by dust, as an embryo by the womb, so this (wisdom) is enveloped by that (desire or anger)

Desires fall under three categories according to the quality of the attachment - inert (tamasic), or active ( rajasic), or noble and divine (sattvic)/ all the three types of desires veil one's wisdom. These different types of qualities (gunas) are indicated by the following three different examples :

(1) "Fire enveloped by smoke" - signifies wisdom eneveloped by sattva. A passing breeze or slight effort is sufficient to remove the smoke. so too a little effort is sufficient to remove sattvic desires that cloud our wisdom.

(2) " A mirror covered by dust" - indicates wisdom covered by rajas. Just as effort of wiping is required to remove the dust, so too one needs to put in a little more effort to remove rajasic desires.

(3) " The embryo covered by the womb" - indicates wisdom covered by tamas. Effort alone is incapable of freeing the baby from the womb. It takes time and patience to be free of tamasic desires. (3.38)


Verse for memorisation -

आवृतं ज्ञानमेतेन ज्ञानिनो नित्यवैरिणा ।
कामरूपेण कौन्तेय दुष्पूरेणानलेन च ॥

avruttam dnyanamettena dnyanino nityavairina |
kaamaroopena kaunteya dushpurenaanalena cha ||

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:14 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Posting Sathiavthiji's reflections here again for reference of all :


VERSE--36

The very question shows Arjuna's change in his attitude towards happenings. He is getting out of the hasty conclusions to a higher level. Every one intellectually knows what is wrong and what is right. But when action comes one invariably gets tempted to do the wrong.This confusion between one's idealogy and one's action becomes a big problem to all those who try to review themselves. The divine in us with its nobler aspirations, wants to fulfil itself with its higher impulses
and subtler achievements, but the animal instinct in us tempts us away and we walk the path of the baser joys of the world. Arjuna wants to know the name of the satan who loots away the divine in us.

VERSE--37

The spiritual ignorance expressinng itself as desire is the inner satan in our bosom. Desire is a constant agitation in our mind caused by an uncontrollable impatience to gain some thing. In life when we are in contact with a variety of objects our mind forms some likings with some objects.These likings produces a desire to possess it. Than we make efforts to possess the object. When we get obstructed from reaching the desired objects anger is formed.This desire-anger-emotion is the very satan in us that compels us to compromise with our higher values of existance, and tempts us to perpetrate sins.Greater the desire, greater we are pulled towards sin. Once the desire comes to manifest our intellect, it enshrouds the wishdom in us. Lord advices Arjuna to come out of this desire, anger,
sin, and sorrow situations and to act with wishdom.

VERSE---38

Desire and consequent anger choke our reasoning power of discrimination in us. They hide the divine in us.These desires can fall under three different categories.
Lord Krishna has given three examples to distinguish between the different textures in the veils that come to hide our true self.
1-Sattwic desires- Noble and divine desires to strive and achieve diviner perfection and a godly self illumination.Krishna compares these desires as fire by smoke.In a smoky fire place the smoke partially veils the
brillience of the light emitted by the flames.Smoke rolls of even at a passing whiff of breeze.However thick the smoke might be, the fire can be perceived.Similarly, it is easy for a sattwic to remove the veil and be
with the divine self.
2--Rajasic desires- They strive to achieve power and wealth, to gain strength and might, to win fame and glory.These desires are compared as a dust on a mirror.The removal of dust on a mirror is little more difficult.
It can be polished by our own efforts at dusting it clean with the help of a clean and dry duster. If the dust is thick no reflection at all can be seen in the mirror.Similarly rajasik desires can be removed by our own efforts only.
3-Tamasic desires are low and vicious and the mind crave for fleshy and carnal pleasures.These are compared as the foetus in the womb.The foetus is covered by the womb until it matures.We cannot observe it as long as it is in the womb.The veiling is complete, and it can drop off only after a definite periode of time. Similarly, desire for flesh-fleshy enjoyments build a womb around the discriminative power in us. Such low mental
pre-occupations can drop off only after a longer periode of evolutionary growth undergone by such a deluded mind and intellect.

VERSE--39

Our desires can never be get satisfied.The more they are enjoyed the more they grow.The desires are the enemy of our wishdom.The power of discrimination the capacity to distinguish the real from the unreal,
the permenent from the impermenent, the true from the false, which gives man his higher status in the scale of evolution.This discriminative capacity in us is gets screened off from us due to our own greedy and insatiable desires.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:19 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Reflections on Verses 36 – 39

Arjuna is perplexed as to how sometimes, actions are taken, even when there is no intention. At times, we know what is the right action and yet that action never happens through us. And at times, we know that a particular action is not right and we do not wish that we should perform some wrong action and yet, we end up doing that. What is the reason for this, has been explained here so beautifully.

Our desires are the main culprit. Desire in very simple words, is a wish to gain something or to avoid something. Brooding over it again and again, makes it quite strong. When obstacles arise in the way of fulfilling the desire, there is anger, frustration and which in turn gives rise to many negative feelings such as greed, hatred, jealousy etc.

Desires are never satiable. Once, a particular desire is fulfilled, there is a temporary happiness, which after a while gives birth to another desire, to experience the same feeling again, to experience more happiness again, to acquire something higher than the current achievement and the cycle continues. So also, the cycle of anger and other negative feelings, when fulfillment of the desires are obstructed again.

Very apt descriptions of “fire enveloped by smoke”, “dist on the mirror” and “embryo in the womb” have been given to explain sattvic, rajasic and tamasic desires, and the degree of efforts required to overcome them. even sattvic desires veil the Self.

Hence, desires and anger are the basic primary enemies in the path to Self Realization.

Regards

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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:30 am

Hari OM

Mananam on V 36-39

Arjuna raises the question on the root cause of all evils for further explanation by the Lord.

Desire is the most destructive enemy of man. When this desire is obstructed it transforms itself into anger. The Lord therefore treats both as one. It takes its origin in Rajas and aggravates it further. As fire cannot be satiated by feeding it with fuel, desire cannot be appeased by supplying it with sense objects.

Atma is veiled in desire, which is in three grades corresponding to the predominance of three gunas. Fire covered by smoke ( sattva), mirror by dust ( rajas) and Embryo in womb ( tamas) and their removal also varies according to the cover.
Satvic cover – discrimination and spiritual sadhanas
Rajasic cover – More determined spiritual efforts
Tamasic cover – Regulated living for a length of time

Desire and anger may not be totally destroyed, even by the wise. But they can be transmuted and made to be harmless. When the hurtful attitude is changed into the helpful devotional attitude, the ill effects of likes and dislikes melt away. The senses in turn get tamed down. When the life for the individual is converted into the life for the Isvara, the desires from senses & sense objects cease their ill effects.

To summarize, some Pointers on Desire:

1) Our desires should be Legitimate, Dharmic

2) The intensity of our desire is to be within our manageable limits.

3) Even if the desire is not fulfilled, it should not affect us. We should be prepared for its fulfillment or non fulfillment.

4) We need to desire for the higher things in life as we move along - Security, Pleasure, Righteousness, Freedom.

5) Suppression of desires does not help. Sublimation is to be practiced.

Pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:25 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Dhanyavaad Muruganji..

Vighneshji and Ganeshji, can you kindly post your thoughts, reflections study notes on the verses 36-39 please?

Regards

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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby vignesh » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:17 pm

Bindling desires and the anger arising out of non fulfillment of desires are the main impediments to Self realization. Right knowledge of desires and how to manage them is essential to make progress towards self realization.
I am happpy to learn from the points that are already nicely covered by everyone in the forum.
regards
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby meera » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:02 pm

Hari Om..

Sorry for being late.


Gita Ch 3, verses 36-39

Verse 36: Arjuna asks what is that force which impels man to sin. That too against his wishes. As if forced.

Arjuna has now come to realise that the desire to think right, but DO wrong is as if a force, an external power that causes man to take the foolish step.

So there is a clear difference or separation between right, knowing right; wrong and doing wrong.

Man stands cleaved between right and wrong and when the moment to act comes he is as if lured by a power towards that which is desirable but wrong.

Equally there is the power of the Divine that desires to lift us up and lead us towards shreyas. In so doing it actualises itself, but in the pull between the power that tempts and the power that elevates, it seems the lower power has a stronger say.
And this is where, despite powerful values imbibed, the fall to the pits happens rather effortlessly.

It appears that Arjuna is slowly waking up to this realisation that despite knowing what his svadharma is, despite knowing right from wrong, how come he was lured to choose a path that was contrary to his values.

Arjuna distinguishes two aspects here: balata, or force to do wrong and anicchhan or, not wishing.
The combined effect of one not wishing and a certain corruptive force, we would imagine, should counter one another. But seemingly they do not and the force to yield to wrong, wins.

Verse 37: Synopsis: The enemy which is at the source of this contradictory behaviour is Desire.

Krishna says “It is desire, it is anger, that is all devouring...”

We are told, desire and anger are not 2 forces. Anger is desire unfulfilled. When desire is intense, it whips up its own storm which erupts as animalistic forceful conduct.

It is this stormy anger that assumes such great power that it can bend our values, and cause them to yield, to give in, to break.

This is scary. For that means, when the desire has grown so large and unwieldy, it has the capability to do anything, chief among them, cast a thick shroud on our reason.

So we want to know what is this desire.

The answer is even worse.

Desire is spiritual ignorance expressing itself in our intellect, making itself appear like wisdom but in fact intending to shroud wisdom. And what is spiritual ignorance? Spirit is (simply) the as-is-ness of a thing. Knowing a thing for what it really is. Spiritual ignorance is not knowing our as-is-ness. Believing we are something else, which we are not.

This spiritual ignorance manifests when desire is obstructed. Until then we remain in an illusion that we are wise, that we know. If desire were not so intense,then, in the face of an obstacle, we will drop the desire, we will let it go. But when the obstruction causes the same emotion to morph into anger, then all that is playing out, is a result of our ignorance of our as-is-ness.

Away from such a moment of challenge, if we were asked whether we would be angry should a desire not be met, we are very prone to say, Oh no, that is so foolish, why be angry! But this is what Arjuna also wonders about, how come man, knowing this is foolish, is yet overcome by such a force that makes him forget his wisdom?

It’s like the sun. Once the sun rises, you cannot see the darkness. No matter what you try. Likewise, once desire arises, you cannot see wisdom. The rising of desire is the setting of wisdom......

..........yet wisdom lies in managing the rise of desire!

We may be tempted to think we do not have desire. We will think so by comparing ourselves with the most depraved of humans and see ourselves in contrast, aglow in a halo of purity. This is the mind deluding. To each, his own brand of desire which is appropriate to annihilate his level of wisdom. Your weakness need not be mine. But mine is enough to wreck my wisdom. This, one must be ever aware of.

Desire has various other forms too – fear, jealousy, hatred...these are the different garbs or dresses that desire wears to delude us, whereby we justify our fear, our hatred thinking that to be wise. But at its heart it is desire – either for an object or person (hence anger), for self promotion (hence jealousy), for self preservation (hence fear), for one’s chosen idea to be perpetrated (hence hatred – eg, I believe vegetarianism is the only way to be; so I hate all those who are non vegetarians. I believe God lives ONLY in Hinduism, so I hate all other residences of the Lord...).


Verse 38: How wisdom is enveloped by desire/anger

Desire leads to attachment for continued enjoyment of the object.

This attachment can take 3 different forms:

a) low, at sense enjoyment level,
b) for power and wealth
c) for divine perfection

These three are regrouped or labelled as: Tamasic, Rajasic and Satvik respectively.

In all three cases the evident mechanics are: a) desire b) formation of attachment in the mind c) Obstruction of the intellect’s discriminating power. This obstruction is what is called veiling, as if a curtain drops on our intelligence.

These are exertions of our desires that invoke specific gunas which consequently veil our discrimination.

To explain the 3, the scriptures use 3 analogies or metaphors: a) Like smoke conceals the fire, even a satvik desire can cloud /cover the intellect. b) Like dust hides the reflection in a mirror or makes it dull and blurred, so too the agitations caused by a desire for power and glory are so thick that our discrimination is clouded. This veiling is very disturbing because the sadhaka is pulled back (like snakes and ladders) by his anger and related passions. And by the time he realises it, it has done its damage.

(In my understanding) this kind of veiling is always followed by a realisation of the error which makes it even worse. I feel in the case of satvik and tamasic veiling there is no realisation. (I request correction if someone knows differently.)

c) Like a foetus in the womb that is not seen at all till it is born, wherein the veiling is for an extended period, so too in tamasic veiling, the desires build layer upon layer around our discrimination so that our condition needs far more time and effort for repair. These veils drop off after a very long period of sadhana and effort.

Gurudev summarises all these with a cryptic, pithy sentence: Desire is that which covers/hides the divine in us. So if we do not sense the divine in us, we may please know that we have veils of desires to blame.


Verse 39: Desire is the enemy of wisdom. It is difficult to satiate it. It envelopes wisdom...


So that exercising wisdom is a huge task, as it calls for working through the encasement of desire. Therefore to exercise wisdom one has to attack desire. This is a terrible challenge. Desire brings joy. Destroying desire takes away joy and brings unhappiness. And we are being told to annihilate that which makes us happy so that we can exercise wisdom.

What do we get for overcoming this enemy of wisdom? How do we understand this even as we are enjoying in the supermarket of desires? How do we leave this market so that wisdom can play out? It is as scary as a person suffering from amnesia walking into an evil man’s den convinced that is his home.

The endeavour of this assertion of wisdom is the ability to know Real from Unreal. To know my real Home from a false home.
The point is even the idea of a Real versus an Unreal, the idea that, all that we seem to be wrapped in as desirable, these malls and things and designations and relationships... that these are Unreal is so silly to hear, but that is the truth but it becomes clear as the day only when we are able to work actively with Wisdom as the key element in every thought.

But as long as desire is our driver, Divinity, Wisdom will be suppressed, covered.

So to go back to Arjuna's question in Stanza 36: What is that force which impels man to sin. That too against his wishes. As if forced...... Let us recall all the people we know whose sins have shocked us, and let us know that the force that impelled him to sin, was DESIRE.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:20 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Kindly post :

Stanza 40 - Sathyavatiji
Stanza 41 - Vighneshaji

HGRR -

Thoughts and Concepts 41 - Uma

Muruganji,Ganeshji and Meeraji to give reflections, study notes.

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby vignesh » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:36 pm

Verse 41

tasmat tvamindri-yanyadau niyamya bharat-arsabha
papmanam prajahi hyenam jnana-vijnana-nasanam

tasmat - therefore, tvam-you, indriyani-the senses, adau - in the beginning, niyamya-having controlled,bharatarsabha-O best of the Bharata-s, papmanam- the sinful,prajahi - kill, hi-surely, enam-this, jnana-vijnana-nasanam-the destroyer of the knowledge and wisdom.

Therefore, O best of the Bharata-s, controlling first the senses, kill this sinful thing, the destroyer of knowledge and wisdom

regards
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:40 pm

HARI OM
VERSE--40
Indriyani mano budhir -asyadhisthanam-ucyate
Etair- vimohayatyesa-jnanam-avrtya dehinam.
Indriyani--the senses; manah--the mind; budhir--the intellect; asya--its; adhisthanam--seat;
ucyate--is said; etaih--by these; vimohayati--deludes; esah--this; jnanam--wisdom;
avrtya--having enveloped; dehinam--the embodied.
The senses, the mind and the intellect are said to be its seats; through these, it deludes the embodied (the individual soul and jivatma) by veiling his wisdom.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:50 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

HGRR Thoughts and Concepts 41

What are the three seats of desire?

Senses, mind and intellect are the three seats of desire.

इन्द्रियाणि मनो बुद्धीरस्याधिष्ठानमुच्यते |
एतैर्विमोहयत्येष ज्ञानमावृत्य देहिनम ||

indriyani mano buddhirasyadhithanamuchyate
etairvimohayatyesha dnyanamaavrutya dehinam

The senses, the mind and the intellect are said to be its seat, through these, it deludes by veiling his wisdom.

The sense organs, functioning without restarint in the world of sense objects, are a very cionvenient theatre for "desire" to function in. When the external stimuli reach the mind through the sense organs. the mind also becomes a breeding centre of sorrows created by "desire". Lastly, the intellect, workign and playing with the memories of teh sense-enjoyments it had lived and of the mental attachments it had entertained, because yet another safer den for "desire" to function from.

The deluded ego, foolishly identifying with the body, desires sense enjoyments. thoughtlessly identifying with the mind, it thirsts to experience more and more emotional satisfactions.. and lastly, identifying with the intellect, it plans to re live the remembered experiences of sense enjoymens and mental joys. (3.40)

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby sganesh0112 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:51 am

Hari Om!

I am sorry for the long silence. My thoughts and reflections for the verses 37-41 is below:


We can say that these stanzas are an extension of thoughts expressed in the second chapter stanzas 60 to 63.

Stanzas II- 60-61 speak about the turbulent senses carrying away the mind of the spiritual seeker and how he should restrain them. Stanzas II-62,63 how these senses causes the attachment for the objects through which desire is born and if desire is not achieved, it gives rise to anger and so on till the destruction of discrimination man perishes.

In the present stanzas III-37-39, Bhagvan further clarifies how "Desires" form the one basic enemy to one's Sadhana. These desires cloud the thought of the individual and when not achieved give rise to anger. Further, how the three forms of desires obstructs one in his path of Sadhana. Here the Lord is going to great lengths to explain the three categories of Desires and warns us to be ever watchful so that we do not fall a prey to this very important foe of the Self.

It is notable that even the great Sage Visvamitra, also fell a prey to the desires of the flesh and gave up his Tapas to start living with Apsaras Menaka. Similarly, he also gave up all his Tapas in another instant in forming the Trisanku Swarga, just to show his difference with Sage Vasishtha. If such learned persons also fall a prey to this desires, it would be all the most important for us to be ever vigilant and try to curb the desires and their craving in us.

Further, one of the basic teachings of Mahatma Buddha, was "Desire is the cause of all the misery in the world and hence we should give up all desires"


Pranams.

Ganesh

PS: Wishing you all a Happy Bhogi and Makara Sankranthi. May Lord Suryanarayana, destroy our ignorance through his Bright sun rays and help us spread the brightness all around with further Blessings of Pujya Gurudev and Pujya Guruji.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby uma » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:29 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Here are the Verses 40-41 for our discussion. Please post your thoughts, your study notes, reflections on these verses.
Dhanvyavaad Ganeshji for your reflections. Others, please post your thoughts.

Offering this garland of verses to you O Krishna with Love from all of us...please help us in our studies.
============================================================


इन्द्रियाणि मनो बुद्धीरस्याधिष्ठानमुच्यते |
एतैर्विमोहयत्येष ज्ञानमावृत्य देहिनम || ४०||

Indriyani mano budhir -asyadhisthanam-ucyate
Etair- vimohayatyesa-jnanam-avrtya dehinam.

इन्द्रियाणि -Indriyani--the senses, मनः - manah--the mind, बुद्धिः -budhir--the intellect, अस्य -asya--its, अधिष्ठानम -adhisthanam--seat , उच्यते -ucyate--is said, एतैः - etaih--by these, विमोहयती - vimohayati--deludes, एषा: - esah--this, ज्ञानम -jnanam--wisdom, आवृत्य -avrtya--having enveloped, देहिनम -dehinam--the embodied

The senses, the mind and the intellect are said to be its seats; through these, it deludes the embodied (the individual soul and jivatma) by veiling his wisdom.



तस्मात्वमिन्द्रियाण्यादौ नियम्य भरतर्षभ |
पाप्मानं प्रजहि ह्येनं ज्ञानविज्ञाननाशनम ||४१||

tasmat tvamindri-yanyadau niyamya bharat-arsabha
papmanam prajahi hyenam jnana-vijnana-nasanam


तस्मात -tasmat - therefore, त्वं -tvam-you, इन्द्रियाणि -indriyani-the senses, आदौ -adau - in the beginning, नियम्य -niyamya-having controlled, भरतर्षभ -bharatarsabha-O best of the Bharata-s, पाप्मानं -papmanam- the sinful, प्रजहि-prajahi - kill, हि - hi-surely, एनम -enam-this, ज्ञान विज्ञान नाशनम -jnana-vijnana-nasanam-the destroyer of the knowledge and wisdom

Therefore, O best of the Bharata-s, controlling first the senses, kill this sinful thing, the destroyer of knowledge and wisdom




HGRR Thoughts and Concepts 41

What are the three seats of desire?

Senses, mind and intellect are the three seats of desire.

इन्द्रियाणि मनो बुद्धीरस्याधिष्ठानमुच्यते |
एतैर्विमोहयत्येष ज्ञानमावृत्य देहिनम ||

indriyani mano buddhirasyadhithanamuchyate
etairvimohayatyesha dnyanamaavrutya dehinam

The senses, the mind and the intellect are said to be its seat, through these, it deludes by veiling his wisdom.

The sense organs, functioning without restarint in the world of sense objects, are a very cionvenient theatre for "desire" to function in. When the external stimuli reach the mind through the sense organs. the mind also becomes a breeding centre of sorrows created by "desire". Lastly, the intellect, workign and playing with the memories of teh sense-enjoyments it had lived and of the mental attachments it had entertained, because yet another safer den for "desire" to function from.

The deluded ego, foolishly identifying with the body, desires sense enjoyments. thoughtlessly identifying with the mind, it thirsts to experience more and more emotional satisfactions.. and lastly, identifying with the intellect, it plans to re live the remembered experiences of sense enjoymens and mental joys. (3.40)

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:59 pm

Hari OM
Thank you Ganeshji for your Sankaranti greetings and reflections. To add on…

Where does the desire reside and how to subjugate it are the issues discussed in these two shlokas. The senses, the mind and the intellect are its seat. By these it deludes man by veiling his wisdom. These instruments which are evolved to understand and serve the Supreme Truth, are wasted in meeting base pleasures by the enemy- desire.

When we take charge of our senses, mind and intellect and use them for divine causes, the effect of base desires get subdued.

A clear grasp of the teachings of the scriptures is known as knowledge. Intuiting the Reality is realization. Both of these become impossible for a man of worldly desires. The Atman gets covered by base desires, which is therefore condemned as sinful. The conqueror of desire by knowledge, viveka and vairagya is indeed a hero.

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 3 : Karma Yoga

Postby meera » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:12 am

Hari Om and thanks for all Sankranti Greetings.
Obeisances to the Sun God...

Some reflections on Verse 40.


Verse 40: This verse points to the places where desire resides. And how it uses the very ground it resides in to delude.

Some operative words here:

How desire chooses its hideout
How these are untrained hence easy target
How does desire ‘know’ how to target these seemingly inert or inanimate zones?
So how that make me, the one inside the BMI, foolish?



Arjuna is in a better position than most people, in that he has understood that man is ‘forced’ to sin, by something outside his control. He has recognised that the actions of man are deluded and not born of wisdom. This is where so many of us fall short.
So now Arjuna wants to hunt down the thief or terrorist.

In reply to where lies this desire, Krishna says: in the senses, in the mind and in the intellect.

So Krishna has verily covered the full body, our encasement .

So our entire CPU (central processing unit) is infected by desire. If it was this or that sector, we could have eliminated those sectors for treatment. But it pervades the 5 senses, the mind and the intellect.

What makes this worse is, unlike any other cancer which spreads discomfort and forces us to seek treatment, this cancer of desire brings joy as it moves, albeit a false joy, but joy all the same (for a jiva who does not yet know real from false, how does it matter?) and hence increases the urge to have more of it.

The more the desire the more we run to fulfil it and the more we want more desire. If we pay attention, more than the fulfilment of the desire, it is the feeling of desire itself, with its anticipation and hope that brings more joy.

This is apparent because even after a desire is met, we are running again after another desire, like a hunter. So it is not wrong to say that more than the prey, our joy is in the hunting...

So first qs: how does desire choose its hideout? It just has to begin with the senses. The rest simply and quietly falls in place.

So how do the senses become available targets?

Because they are not trained by us to be well behaved. Or mannered.Or disciplined.

If we observe children’s birthday parties, we will see some children poking the cake, taking away chips and things with their grubby hands from the serving bowls directly...and there will be kids who will come up to the hostess gently and say, please may I have an extra helping of ketchup or whatever...who will take one of each and not 10 of each.

The latter have been repeatedly told by their parents, ‘don;t be greedy, don;t grab, wait your turn, don;t take what has not been given to you (yagna theory?)... ask for permission..’

These kids have restraint and better still, even their desire is (thus) low. [This is what dieting does too. It prescribes 2 or 3 time points when you can eat and what you can eat. If you follow this, the mind like a trained pup does not ask for food AT ALL.]

Likewise senses have to be trained and restrained (see how restrained contains the word ‘trained’.] The eyes must be trained to see some kinds of things only and NOT see some kinds of things; the ears must be trained to hear some kinds of things and taught to shit itself out when some kinds of sounds (gossip, judgemental talk...) are present. Saints and seekers train their skin to accept heat and cold, rough grounds, a mat without pillow to sleep on... withstand body pain...why? They are training their senses.

But.... if we have not trained our senses in restraint, it will be a set of senses that are like unbridled horses, running free and recklessly, grabbing everything in sight and doing as it wishes.

The advocates for uncensored internet are in this category.

When we are unable to find the right script to tell our children why they should reject some kind of content, we put them at greater spiritual peril. Hence even if the young will not listen, we must speak our script, no matter how ineffective it seems. Parenting is not a popularity business.

So senses which are not trained (right from the start or can be adopted later with difficulty) are the preferred hosts of the drug peddler called desire. It will feed the senses with joy and urge it to enjoy and thus invite itself into the arena of the senses and occupy it confidently.

We know how the virus comes. The stimuli to ‘like’ or ‘dislike’ any one or thing, lies partly in us and partly in the sense object. When we see a car or a mobile phone, if the antibodies have not been built in our mind, then the ‘latest mobile phone’ (assuming this is in addition to 3 other phones I have) triggers the mind, waking up the desire again. The mind responds gleefully. At this stage if the intellect does not invoke our Higher Self and restrain the mind (and the ego acting on its behalf), the ego will then take over the intellect’s wisdom, and justify the purchase or the desire of the kind using past memories of enjoyment of a new phone... and thus the desire spreads itself like melted butter all over the subtle body.

Enjoying all this is my ego which is deaf and blind by now, having pushed the higher self out of sight and hearing. And the ego says, “How happy I am!”

In the HGRR reflection 41, as Uma quotes, “The deluded ego, foolishly identifying with the body, desires sense enjoyments, thoughtlessly identifying with the mind,”

What is ‘foolish’?

We who reside in this BMI tower, via the ego, predominantly, consider that word hefty. When we think of others acts, ‘foolish’ works. When we think of our own encased existence via the ego, the word that comes to our lips readily, is WISDOM.
So what is foolish? Because this word has been used more as a rebuke and insult, we have never gone into it. It serves its purpose through the tone in which we deliver it.

The dictionary defines 'foolish' as...’lacking forethought or caution’.

Pursuit of desire without thinking, is foolish. Same as our earlier exhortation to build a pause between thought and action. This pause is when the Higher Self is allowed to preside. Overriding the ego.

Hari Om,
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