Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds Chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.
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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:37 am

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

With Bhagvan's grace, Pujya Gurudev and Pujya Guruji Swami Tejomayanandaji's blessings, the group has successfully completed systematic study of sixth chapter of Gita, dhyana Yoga or the Yoga of Meditation.

Let me introduce myself, before we commence the 7th chapter. My name is Arvind Kannan and I will be the moderator for this forum. I have completed
the 15th Vedanta Course from Chinmaya Mission under the guidance of Pujya Swami Advayanandaji in the capacity of a day student.

Let's now study the next chapter, Chapter 7 Jnana Vijnana Yoga , the Yoga of Knowledge and Wisdom.

Guidelines:

We will stick to Pujya Gurudev Swami Chinmayanandaji's Gita text for our study and Pujya Swami Advayanandaji's "Gita Ready Reference" book for our main reference. Additional references only from Chinmaya Mission Acharya's discourses/CDs/DVDs/Shankara Bhashya as well as teachers in the line of Advaita parampara will be allowed and appreciated. We will take up the verses according to the thought flow for our discussion.

Since we are starting a new topic I invite all readers to come forward and join this discussion actively. If we have more participants we will get more views and that will enrich our Satsang. I also request respected Acharyas here to please help us in our effort. There are different ways you can participate in this discussion.

Category 1. You would like to be an integral part of this study group and will be commited to study. You will be posting verses, writing your thoughts/reflections/references on verses regularly. I will count on you to be regular and will call you out for contributing.

Category 2. You would like to be a casual contributor because you are very interested in participating but cannot devote regular time. You will participate as and when you have time. I will not call you out for any time critical tasks like posting verses. You are very welcome to contribute/ask questions anytime as long as you stick to guideline above and keep your posting relevant to the ongoing discussion.

Category 3. You are an Acharya or Brahmachari or Swamiji or knowledgeable Vedanta Scholar of Chinmaya Mission. You would like to provide guidance to us or give pointers to us when you have time. We will be very grateful to you ! You may remain anonymous without revealing your identity if that's what you like, as long as you identify yourself in category 3.

Please specify which category you would like to join. A brief introduction about you will be helpful too.

The existing Category 1 members are

Uma
Muruganji
Vighneshaji
Ganeshaji
Sathyavathiji

These members need not introduce themselves again. Any new members are welcome and should introduce and participate in this satsang.

Looking forward to everyone's active participation and enriching the learning experience from this forum.

Regards
Arvind Kannan
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Schandra » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:46 am

Hari Om. Namaste.

I am Suja and I am a total novice. I hope to take part in the discussions under category 1 and learn from the process under the able guidance of Arvindji.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby nikhil1707 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:16 am

Hari Om and Pranam to all

My name is Nikhil and I want to be in category 1.


Kind Regards,

Nikhil
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:44 pm

Nikhil ji and Suja ji a hearty welcome to the forum. I am sure this will enrich all our knowledge when we all share our thoughts.

Now before we begin on Sloka 1 proper, let us try to answer these two questions.

(1) How is Chapter 7 linked to the earlier Chapters of the Gita ?
(2) How is Chapter 7 closely linked to Chapter 6 with respect to thought flow. (The seed of Chapter 7 is last sloka of Chapter 6.
Please keep this information when you reflect).

Members please post your individual thoughts and reflections on this. Once that is done we can assign roles starting from Sloka 1.

Thanks
Arvind Kannan
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Payyubg » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:51 am

Namaste

My name is Priya murali. I am attending Arvindji's Sunday Gita classes.
I want to register as a category 1 user.
Thank you so much

Priya
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:07 pm

1. Geeta explains the mahavakya from Chandogya Upanishad – statement addressed to Shwetaketu by his father Uddalaka, Tat Twam Asi – That thou are.

The first six chapters of Geeta, which we have studied so far, Arjun Vishad Yoga, Sankhya Yoga, Karma Yoga, Jnan karma Sanyas Yoga, Karma Sanyas Yoga and Dhyan Yoga, are centered upon “twam”. They explain the significance of Twam. Twam is the inherent substratum which is present in all of us.

The next six chapters, beginning with the 7 th one till the Chapter 12, explain the essence of “That” or “tat”. The last six chapters explain “asi” or “are”.

So far, we have learnt the “twam “ aspect and now we will begin the “tat” – our real aim.

2. Chapter Six ended with the stanza which stated that Yogi is superior to people who give up all worldly things, or even to men of knowledge or men of action and amongst all Yogis, one who meditates upon Him, completely immersed in Him with complete faith is the most devout.

Naturally, a question arises that “twam” that is we, who are limited by body and intelligence, and whose mind is limited, how can we even glimpse the “tat” that is inifinite ? And the answer to this is explained further.

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:36 pm

How is Chapter 7 linked with the first six chapters?

The Gita can be broadly classified into three sections, the 'tat', 'tvam' and 'asi' sections. 'tat tvam asi' as we know is one of the mahavakyas (great declarations) of the Upanishads. 'tvam' means the individual, ''tat' means the Lord and 'asi' indicates the identity.

So 'tvam' talks about the individual, the jiva and his real nature. So we see that the Lord gave the knowledge of the Self in Chapter 2. The means to reach it are given in Chapter 3 to Chapter 6. It starts with the process of karma yoga concluding with dhyana/samadhi in Chapter 6. Since all these topics pertain to the individual they are classified as dealing with the "tvam" pada.

The middle six chapters, starting from Chapter 7 to Chapter 12 deal with the "tat" pada. It deals with the nature of the Lord. So after having explained about the individual now the Lord talks about himself , starting from this chapter. Both his absolute and relative nature will be dealt with.

One thing to keep in mind is these classifications are only broad, and there can and in fact be a cross reference of topics dealt within a division. So Chapter 7 to Chapter 12 broadly talk of the Lord, but it will also talk of the means and the devotee (the individual). So the classifications are not to be taken literally, they are only broad classifications.

How is Chapter 7 linked with Chapter 6?

The last sloka of Chapter 6 was

yoginām api sarveṣāṃ madgatenāntarātmanā
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṃ sa me yuktatamo mataḥ


In this Chapter, the Lord is going to expound upon "three" terms that appear in the above sloka (last sloka of Chapter 6)
(a) śraddhāvān bhajate māṃ = One who with "faith" worships ME. The Lord has to explain what is his nature. For it is quite obvious that if we have to meditate on something we need to know its attributes. This question might have perplexed Arjuna, for without knowing the Lord's nature how can one meditate as explained in Chapter 6. So this nature of the Lord has to be explained. That he does in Chapter 7.

(b) bhajate = One who worships (with faith). So it needs to be explained what is the bhagavat bhajan, or what is bhagavat bhakti or nature of worship of the Lord. This also is expounded in this Chapter.

(c) madgatenāntarātmanā = One whose mind is fixed in Me. The Lord had in the context of the concluding verse of Chapter 6 said that one whose mind is fixed in me with faith and worships Me, he is the best among all Yogis. So it remains to be said now, how will such a perfect devotee be, meaning what is true bhagavat bhakti.

Therefore three points arise to be expounded from the last sloka of Chapter 6 -
(a) What is the nature of the Lord
(b) What is the bhagavat bhati or worship
(c) How would such a perfect devotee be.

Hence the Chapter 7 is closely linked to Chapter 6. Though Arjuna never asked on clarification on these points, the Lord out of mere compassion himself expounds and elaborates these points.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:46 pm

HARI OM

CHAPTER-VI


The 18 chapters of Geeta have been divided in to three groups of 6 chapters, each dealing with karmayoga, Bhaktiyoga and jnanayoga respectively.This does not mean that the groups exclusively deal with only one type of yoga,and contain no reference to the other groups.A group is generally named after the type of yoga which has been primarily dealt with in it.The first chapter is only of an introductery nature containing no referance to any of the yogas.

Chapter 2 deals with sankhyayoga (jnanayoga) from verses 11 to 30.After that from verse 39 to the end of chapter 3, karmayoga has been discussed in detail.

In chapters 4 and 5 the topics of karmayoga and jnanayoga have been dealt with.the main theme of chapter 6 is dhyanayoga, though karma yoga and other yogas too have been discussed here and there according to the needs of the situation.Thus all the principal yogas have been discussed in this first group of 6 chapters,the subject of karmayoga has been dealt with more elaborately in this than in the other two groups. Chapters 7 to 12, mainly deal with
bhaktiyoga, other subjects too have been discussed here and there.Chapter 7 has been named as "The yoga of jnana and Vijnana.'Jnana' means consummate knowledge of the formless and attributeless aspect of God with the secret of its glory and greatness.'Vijnana' means a thorough knowledge of the sports, mysteries, glory and greatness of the qualified aspect of God both with and without form.That is the knowledge of the integral divinity.


2--

Chapter 6 discusses at length Dhyanayoga or the yoga of meditation as auxiliary to the practice of both Karmayoga and jnanayoga.Control over the body,mind,senses and intellect is extremely necessary in dhyanayoga.

In the last verse of chapter 6, the Lord declared that in his opinion the Yogi who devoutly and lovingly worshipped Him with his mind focussed on him was the best of all. But so long as a man does not know the reality, virtues and glory of the Lord it is exceedingly difficult for him to perform such worship unceasingly with the mind. At the same time it is essential to know the mode of such worship.Therefore with a view to show His integral divinity the Lord now is asking Arjuna to listen to it carefully and promises to speak of jnana and Vijnana in this chapter.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Payyubg » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:15 am

Chapter 2 could be understood as a high level summary of the entire Geetha. It touches on the most salient features of each of the subsequent chapters.

From chapter 3 until chapter 6, bhagavan basically explains how a student needs to prepare himself in order to fully grasp /understand and appreciate the knowledge that is going to be imparted to him in chapters 7-12.

Through the explanations about what karma yoga, jnana yoga,yoga of renunciation and yoga of meditation, Bhagavan wants the student to under go transformation to his mindset, attitude and approach to life , his understanding about himself and all those around him . That sacrificing his every action be it a physical , mental , involuntary, voluntary , to the almighty will free him from the sense of " I am doing this or that" , there by freeing him from the bondage of ownership of such actions . By so doing he is free from desires, anger, greed and so on.

Bhagavan explains how this calming down of the mind by totally with drawing from one's senses can bring about this transformation, and only then the student will be ready to fully comprehend the knowledge that is imparted to him. The student needs to practice this , with steadfastness and complete faith ,because to reach that state of mind requires a lot of effort.

He explains why the knowledge he is going to impart is important and how and why that is going to help the student integrate with the supreme.

In the last sloka of chapter 6 Bhagavan gives a very precise definition of a person who is truly ready to move on to acquire this supreme knowledge .The nature of the Lord, as well as the devotee who is of this kind and his mode of worship, all these he expounds in the Chapters 7 -12.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby umakishan » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:24 pm

Hari:OM,

I would like to participate in this Forum under catergory-1. Thanks for the opportunity.

Regards,
Uma Kishan. P
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:01 pm

Priyaji, Kishanji welcome to the forum and looking forward to everyone's active participation.
Umaji, Priyaji and Sathiavathi ji thank you for sharing your reflections and thoughts.

Now let us begin our study of Chapter 7. Let us take Sloka 1, Sloka 2 together.

Kindly post:
Sloka 1, 2 verse and word meaning - Kishan ji

HGRR (Holy Gita Ready Reference)

Terms and Definitions 1,2 - Umaji

Individual reflections and thoughts on the Slokas 1 and 2 - ALL Category 1 Members are welcome to post.

Let us now study Slokas 1 and 2 together, and post out reflections based on the above.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Schandra » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:27 am

Namaste.

In the previous chapters(1-6), Lord Krishna plays the role of a friend, philosopher and guide to Arjuna. In chapter 7, The Lord takes on a position of importance. Leaving behind the role of an ordinary teacher, He now speaks as the Almighty.

In shloka 1, Bhagawan goes on to say that the fully integrated Yogi will not be side tracked by normal human goals which could be fulfilled by performing different rituals and austerities. He has his mind set on the Almighty as his sole refuge. This knowledge he acquires,will give him the total conviction without a doubt, the true nature of the Almighty.

In shloka 2, Bhagawan Shri Krishna says that He will impart this knowledge in its entirety as gnana( knowledge) and vignana( experience). He praises this knowledge as the most supreme and rare by stating that once this knowledge is understood, there is nothing else remaining to know.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:36 am

Hari OM

Thank you Arvindji for the thought provoking questions and the nice answers from the satsangis.

As per my understanding, The characteristics of Jivatman, the individual soul, have been eloborated in the first six chapters. To what extent the Jivatman can elevate himself has also been enumerated. There is no purpose superior to the devotion to the Lord, to which the highly evolved soul can apply himself. The next six chapters are devoted to the definition of Iswara and the development of Bhakti. The last stanza in this chapter gives the link between the first six chapters and the second six chapters. It is indicated here that the development of one form of yoga into another is natural and sponteneous. Karma yoga evolved into Raja yoga, and this again is going to evolve into Bhakti yoga.

Pranams
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby madan » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:35 pm

Hari Om,
My name is Madan Mohan Dubey.With the grace of God ,I have joined this Discussion Forum.I have studied in 14th Vedanta Course conducted by Acharya Swami Advaitanandji and further studied Bhagvad Gita and Sanskrit in 15th vedanta Course in Mumbai.
I wish to join Category 1 .
Thanks
M.M.Dubey
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby vignesh » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:00 pm

Hari OM
I will be a category 2 member due to my current assignments and look forward to visiting and learning from the forum as often as i can.
regards
vignesh
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby uma » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:11 am

Pranam to all.

Posting from HGRR

Terms and Conditions

1. Define "Mahavakya". What are the four Mahavakyas?

Upanishadic statements that indicate the identity between the inner - Self and Brahman - the Supreme Reality, are called Mahavakyas. The four important Mahavakyas are :

1. Pradnyanam Brahma (Consciousness is Brahman)
2. Tat tvam asi (That Thou Art)
3. Ayam atma Brahma (This Atman is Brahman)
4. Aham brahma asmi (I am Brahman).
( Introduction)

2. Differentiate " jnana" from " Vijnana".

Speculative knowledge is "jnana" and actual Experience of the Self is "Vijanana". (7.2)

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:58 am

Hari OM,

Thank you Suja ji and Muruganji and Uma ji for your postings.
Warm welcome to Dubey ji to the forum.
Vigneshji - Please feel free to read and post whenever you get time.

Thanks
Arvind
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby umakishan » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:16 pm

Hari: OM,

The word meaning of the first two Slokas is as below:

Sloka 1:

श्रीभगवानुवाच
मय्यासक्तमनाः पार्थ योगं युञ्जन्मदाश्रयः ।
असंशयं समग्रं मां यथा ज्ञास्यसि तच्छृणु ॥

Word to Word Meaning
श्रीभगवानुवाच - The Lord spoke
मय्यासक्तमनाः= With the mind intent on Me
पार्थ = O Partha (name of Arjuna)
योगं युञ्जन्मदाश्रयः = practicing the Yoga and taking refuge in Me alone
असंशयं = without any doubt
समग्रं = wholly
मां = Me
यथा= how
ज्ञास्यसि = you shall know
तच्छृणु = that you hear

Full Sloka Meaning:
"With the mind intent on Me, O Partha, practicing Yoga and taking refuge in Me, how thou shalt, without doubt, know Me Fully , that do thou Hear".

Sloka 2:

ज्ञानं तेऽहं सविज्ञानमिदं वक्ष्याम्यशेषतः ।
यज्ज्ञात्वा नेह भूयोऽन्यज्ज्ञातव्यमवशिष्यते ॥

Word to Word Meaning
ज्ञानं = Indirect knowledge (of the Sastras)
सविज्ञानमिदं = this combined with realization (direct knowledge of Atma through realization of the Self)
वक्ष्याम्यशेषतः = I will declare in full, in entirety
यज्ज्ञात्वा = Having known which
नेह = not here
भूयोऽन्य = anything more or anything else
ज्ज्ञातव्यमवशिष्यते = ought to be known remains

Full Sloka Meaning:
I shall declare to you in full this knowledge combined with realization, which being known, nothing more here remains to be known.

Regards,
Uma Kishan. P
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:02 pm

Hari Om and Pranaams to all.

I invoke the grace and blessings of the Lord and all the Gurus of our Guru tradition as we begin this reflection of Chapter 7.

Apart from your own reflections on Sloka 1 and SLoka 2 you can also think on these lines and post answers for the below questions if you wish. Please think and post your responses, and I will post what I think of them end of Saturday IST.

Sunday we will be moving to the next Sloka (Sloka 3).

Thoughts to be reflected/discussed in Sloka 1

Whenever we know or study a subject or a book, there are three factors that pertain to it. One is the fit receipent of the knowledge (adhikari), second is the subject matter of the subject being studied (vishaya) , and thirdly the usefulness of such a study (prayojan).
For example if one has to read an advanced medical journal,
The fit receipent (adhikari) is one who has prior basic medical knowledge or passed an MBBS.
The subject matter (vishaya) is the theme of the medical journal.
The result (prayojan) is he becomes endowed with the knowledge of the subject the journal is giving. Please note for this to happen, he has to bit a fit recipient.

Similarly when it comes to spiritual wisdom (jnana and vijnana) which the Lord is going to give , he points these three factors right in the first Sloka. How?

Thoughts to be reflected/discussed in Sloka 2

The Lord says In Sloka 2 I will give the spiritual wisdom which is jnana and vijnana. Can we contrast and compare what this would be with reference to spiritual wisdom when compared to any wordly knowledge?

The Lord also promises that he will give the spiritual knowledge "asesatah", completely, fully. What could this possibly mean?

Thirdly he says the result of the knowledge is nothing else remains to be known after knowing this. This is definitely praise of spiritual knowledge. Which means the Lord says with wordly wisdom always something else remains to be known, but this spiritual wisdom is complete. What could it mean?
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:53 am

HARI OM

VERSE-I

One whose minds is entirely free from attachment for all forms enjoyments of this world and the next, and withdrawing itself from all sides has got so deeply attached to God,the sole object of supreme love and repository of all virtues is called "mayyasaktamanah".

One who has totally given up dependence on all objects of the world, and renouncing all forms of worldly hope and reliance has pinned his faith on God alone and become free from anxiety for ever is reffered to by the Lord "madasrayah".

When such a mind is firmly established in full concentration upon the divine nature of its godly potentialities, the seeker evolves to understand more quickly His integral divinity without the least doubt or misconception.

VERSE-2

jnana and Vijnana lead to a proper realization of the intergral being of God. Lord says that this entire universe is nothing but an insignificant part of that integral being. For him who has known this intergral reality of God, naturally there remains nothing to be known.
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