Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds Chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.
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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:53 pm

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

With Bhagvan's grace, Pujya Gurudev and Pujya Guruji Swami Tejomayanandaji's blessings, we successfully completed systematic study of third chapter of Gita, Karma Yoga.

Let's now study the next chapter, Chapter 4, Dnyan Karma Sanyas Yoga or Yoga of Renunciation of Action in Knowledge .

Guidelines: We will stick to Pujya Gurudev Swami Chinmayanandaji's Gita text for our study and Pujya Swami Advayanandaji's "Gita Ready Reference" book for our main reference. Additional references only from Chinmaya Mission Acharya's discourses/CDs/DVDs/Shankara Bhashya will be allowed and appreciated. We will take up the verses according to the thought flow for our discussion.

Since we are starting a new topic I invite all readers to come forward and join this discussion actively. If we have more participants we will get more views and that will enrich our Satsang. I also request respected Acharyas here to please help us in our effort. There are different ways you can participate in this discussion.

Category 1. You would like to be an integral part of this study group and will be commited to study. You will be posting verses, writing your thoughts/reflections/references on verses regularly. I will count on you to be regular and will call you out for contributing.

Category 2. You would like to be a casual contributor because you are very interested in participating but cannot devote regular time. You will participate as and when you have time. I will not call you out for any time critical tasks like posting verses. You are very welcome to contribute/ask questions anytime as long as you stick to guideline above and keep your posting relevant to the ongoing discussion.

Category 3. You are an Acharya or Brahmachari or Swamiji or knowledgeable Vedanta Scholar of Chinmaya Mission. You would like to provide guidance to us or give pointers to us when you have time. We will be very grateful to you ! You may remain anonymous without revealing your identity if that's what you like, as long as you identify yourself in category 3.

Looking forward to hearing your interest. Please specify which category you would like to join. A brief introduction about you will be helpful too.

Regards
uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:59 pm

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

I apologise that the topic Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga, though created earlier was deleted by mistake whilst removing spam topics.

So far, postings from the following sadhakas were received regarding their participation and category :

Muruganji - Category 1
Vighneshji - Category 1
Uma - Category 1
Meera - Category 2
Ganeshji - Category 2

Sathiavathiji's posting is yet to be received.

I request Category 2 participants to post their study notes, reflections when the verses are posted and assembled in order.

Thanks and Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:00 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Kindly post : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Stanza 1 - Uma
Stanza 2 - Muruganji
Stanza 3 - Vighneshaji


HGRR -

Thoughts and Concepts 1, 2 - Uma
3, 4 - Muruganji

Selections for Reflection - 1 - Vighneshaji

Meeraji, Ganeshaji and Sathiavathiji, humble request to you to post your study notes, reflections once the posting and combining of the verses is complete.

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:02 pm

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Posting Stanza 1 :

श्रीभगवानुवाच

इमं विवस्वते योगं प्रोक्तवानहमव्ययम् |
विवस्वान्मनवे प्राह मनुरिक्ष्वाकवे ब्रवीत||1||

imam vivaswate yogam proktavaanahamavyayam
vivaswaanmanave praah manurikshwakave braveet

The Blessed Lord said :

1. I taught this impreishable Yoga to Vivaswan, Vivaswan taught it to Manu, Manu taught it to Ishwaku

इमम - this, विवस्वते - to Vivsawan, योगं - yoga, प्रोक्तवान- taught, अहं - I, अव्ययं- imperishable, विवस्वान् - Vivaswan, मनवे - To Manu , प्राह- taught, मनु: - Manu, इक्ष्वाकवे- to Ishwaku , अब्रवीत - taught

HGRR :
Thoughts and Concepts

1. What is the "guru-shushya-parampara" ( lineage of teacher and taught) pointed out by Shri Krishna?

इमं विवस्वते योगं प्रोक्तवानहमव्ययम् |
विवस्वान्मनवे प्राह मनुरिक्ष्वाकवे ब्रवीत||1||

imam vivaswate yogam proktavaanahamavyayam
vivaswaanmanave praah manurikshwakave braveet

The Blessed Lord said :

1. I taught this impreishable Yoga to Vivaswan, Vivaswan taught it to Manu, Manu taught it to Ishwaku

The Lord declares that He himself, at the very beginning of creation, imparted the Knowledge of the Vedas to the Sun (Vivaswan), and later on, the Sun-god conveyed it to his son, Manu, the ancient law-giver of India. Manu, in turn, declared it to Ishwaku, the ancestor of the Solar dynasty that ruled over Ayodhya for a long period of time. (4.1)

2. What is the meaning of the word "Veda"?

The word "Veda" is derived from the root, "vid", "to know", "Veda" therefore means "Knowledge". The Knwoledge of "divinity" lurking in man and the technique by which it can be brought out to full manifestation are the themes of the Veda textbooks. (4.1)

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:39 pm

Hari OM

Verse 2

Evam parampara-praptam-imam raja-rsayo viduh
sa kalen-eha mahata yogo nastah paramtapa.

evam - thus, parampara praptam- handed down in regular succession, imam- this, raja rsayah-the royal sages, viduh-knew, sah-this, kalena-by lapse of time, iha-here, mahata- by long, yogah- yoga, nastah-destroyed, parantapa - O Paramtapa.

This knowledge,handed down thus in regular succession, the royal sages know. This Yoga, by long lapse of time, has been lost here, O Paramtapa ( burner of the foes)

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:50 pm

HGRR Thoughts and Concepts
3) Why should spiritual lessons be directly heard from a true master?

The theme of Vedic literature being the subjective Diviniti, language fails to express it completely. No deep experience can be exhaustively expressed in words. Therefore, a study of the scriptures by oneself is apt to create misunderstanding rather than a right appreciation of it. Thus it is a time honoured tradition in India that spiritual lessons are directly heard from a true Master, who has had vivid inner experiences in the realm of the Spirit. ( 4.1)

4) Why is the " Science of Truth" called the " supreme secret"?
The " Science of Truth" being described as the "supreme secret" only indicates that a man, however wise he might be, may not come to suspect the existence of the Atman in himself without being so advised by a Man of Experience. The Self being that which is beyond the intellect, the reasoning capacity in a man cannot come to suspect the existence of the eternal and changeless Conscious Principle which is subtler than the intellect. Hence, this " Science of Truth" is called the " supreme secret". ( 4.3)

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:59 am

Sadaasiva samaarambhaam, sankaraacharya madhyamaam,
asmadaacharya paryantaam, vande guruparamparaam!



Thank you for this opportunity.

Will do my best to be on time :)

Feel free to ask me to post if you need help that week.

Hari Om.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby vignesh » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:03 pm

sa evayam maya te'dya yogah proktah puratanah
bhakto'si me sakha ceti rahasyam hy-etad-uttamam

sah-that
eva-even
ayam-this
mayaa-by me
te-to you
adya-today
yogah-yoga
proktah-has been taught
puratanah-ancient
bhaktah-devotee
asi-you are
me-my
sakha-friend
ca- an
iti-thus
rahasyam-secret
hi-for
etat-this
uttamam- best, Supreme

That same ancient"Yoga" has been to-day taught to you by Me, for you are My devotee and My friend.This is a Supreme secret.

Selection for reflection
At certian periods of history, this Knowledge ( Brahma-vidya) seems to be readily available for the service of mankind,but at certain other periods of his tory it falls into disuse and becomes,as it wee,defunct. The golden era of spirituality dies down to inagurate the dark ages of undivine life. At such periods of monstrous meterilasm, the generation is not left in neglect to suffer and groan under its own negative values.For, at that time,some great Masters appears on the horizon to inspire, to encourgae and to lead the generation away from the ruts of sorrow onto the highroads of cultural revival. ( 4.2)
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:50 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Here are the Verses 1-3 for our discussion. Please post your thoughts, your study notes, reflections on these verses.

Offering this garland of verses to you O Krishna with Love from all of us...please help us in our studies.
============================================================


श्रीभगवानुवाच
इमं विवस्वते योगं प्रोक्तवानहमव्ययम् |
विवस्वान्मनवे प्राह मनुरिक्ष्वाकवे ब्रवीत||1||

imam vivaswate yogam proktavaanahamavyayam
vivaswaanmanave praah manurikshwakave braveet

The Blessed Lord said :

1. I taught this impreishable Yoga to Vivaswan, Vivaswan taught it to Manu, Manu taught it to Ishwaku

इमम - this, विवस्वते - to Vivsawan, योगं - yoga, प्रोक्तवान- taught, अहं - I, अव्ययं- imperishable, विवस्वान् - Vivaswan, मनवे - To Manu , प्राह- taught, मनु: - Manu, इक्ष्वाकवे- to Ishwaku , अब्रवीत - taught

एवं परम्पराप्राप्तमिमं राजर्षयो विदु: |
स कालेनेह महता योगो नष्ट: परन्तप ||2||

Evam parampara-praptam-imam raja-rsayo viduh
sa kalen-eha mahata yogo nastah paramtapa.

2. This knowledge,handed down thus in regular succession, the royal sages know. This Yoga, by long lapse of time, has been lost here, O Paramtapa ( burner of the foes)

एवं -evam - thus, परम्परा प्राप्तं -parampara praptam- handed down in regular succession, इमं-imam- this, राज- ऋषय:-raja rsayah-the royal sages, विदु:-viduh-knew, स:-sah-this, कालेन-kalena-by lapse of time, इह-iha-here, महता -mahata- by long, योग:-yogah- yoga, नष्ट:-nastah-destroyed, परन्तप -parantapa - O Paramtapa


स एवायं मया ते द्य योग: प्रोक्त: पुरातन: |
भक्तोऽसि मे सखा चेति रहस्यं ह्येतदुत्तमम ||3||

sa evayam maya te'dya yogah proktah puratanah
bhakto'si me sakha ceti rahasyam hy-etad-uttamam


3.That same ancient"Yoga" has been to-day taught to you by Me, for you are My devotee and My friend.This is a Supreme secret.


स: -sah-that, एव -eva-even, अयं -ayam-this, मया -mayaa-by me, ते -te-to you, अद्य-adya-today, योग:-yogah-yoga, प्रोक्त:-proktah-has been taught, पुरातन:-puratanah-ancient, भक्त:-bhaktah-devotee, असि -asi-you are, मे -me-my, सखा -sakha-friend, च -ca- and, इति-iti-thus, रहस्यं -rahasyam-secret, हि -hi-for, एतत-etat-this, उत्तमं-uttamam- best, Supreme


HGRR
Thoughts and Concepts

1. What is the "guru-shushya-parampara" ( lineage of teacher and taught) pointed out by Shri Krishna?

इमं विवस्वते योगं प्रोक्तवानहमव्ययम् |
विवस्वान्मनवे प्राह मनुरिक्ष्वाकवे ब्रवीत||1||

imam vivaswate yogam proktavaanahamavyayam
vivaswaanmanave praah manurikshwakave braveet

The Blessed Lord said :

1. I taught this impreishable Yoga to Vivaswan, Vivaswan taught it to Manu, Manu taught it to Ishwaku

The Lord declares that He himself, at the very beginning of creation, imparted the Knowledge of the Vedas to the Sun (Vivaswan), and later on, the Sun-god conveyed it to his son, Manu, the ancient law-giver of India. Manu, in turn, declared it to Ishwaku, the ancestor of the Solar dynasty that ruled over Ayodhya for a long period of time. (4.1)

2. What is the meaning of the word "Veda"?

The word "Veda" is derived from the root, "vid", "to know", "Veda" therefore means "Knowledge". The Knwoledge of "divinity" lurking in man and the technique by which it can be brought out to full manifestation are the themes of the Veda textbooks. (4.1)

3. Why should spiritual lessons be directly heard from a true master?

The theme of Vedic literature being the subjective Diviniti, language fails to express it completely. No deep experience can be exhaustively expressed in words. Therefore, a study of the scriptures by oneself is apt to create misunderstanding rather than a right appreciation of it. Thus it is a time honoured tradition in India that spiritual lessons are directly heard from a true Master, who has had vivid inner experiences in the realm of the Spirit. ( 4.1)

4. Why is the " Science of Truth" called the " supreme secret"?
The " Science of Truth" being described as the "supreme secret" only indicates that a man, however wise he might be, may not come to suspect the existence of the Atman in himself without being so advised by a Man of Experience. The Self being that which is beyond the intellect, the reasoning capacity in a man cannot come to suspect the existence of the eternal and changeless Conscious Principle which is subtler than the intellect. Hence, this " Science of Truth" is called the " supreme secret". ( 4.3)


Selection for reflection:

1 At certain periods of history, this Knowledge ( Brahma-vidya) seems to be readily available for the service of mankind,but at certain other periods of history it falls into disuse and becomes,as it were,defunct. The golden era of spirituality dies down to inaugurate the dark ages of undivine life. At such periods of monstrous materialism, the generation is not left in neglect to suffer and groan under its own negative values.For, at that time,some great Masters appears on the horizon to inspire, to encourge and to lead the generation away from the ruts of sorrow onto the highroads of cultural revival. ( 4.2)

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:17 pm

Hari OM

Verse 1-3

Moksha or the spiritual freedom being imperishable, the means to it is also designated as imperishable. The endevours of humanbeings for freedom are everlasting and therefore, the practice of yoga is also everlasting and gets passed from generation to generation.

When the right type of people become scarce, the right system also dwindles. As the shadow follows the substance, a good system comes in again with the advent of proper people.

Secrecy is maintained in regard to many things worldly, because of selfishness or because of their being harmful if abused. The science of yoga remains a secret, not for these reasons, but because of the incompetency of man to pursue it properly. Now Arjuna, a worthy receipient has appeared and therefore, and therefore a new revelation of yoga also ensues. What a man has made himself worthy of, that comes to him spontaneously.

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:59 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

These stanzas talk about Arjuna’s puzzlement over how the Lord had told the yoga to Sun God, when Sun God was born much earlier. Arjuna has still not understood Lord’s divinity, omnipresence, omniscience.

They also talk about Guru Shishya parampara and how spiritual knowledge has to be listened to with great faith, from the Master himself and cannot perceived in its right sense by mere reading.

Also, there is a reflection on the basis of “Yada yada hi dharmasya…”, whenever the knowledge, that He resides within everyone or there is divinity with every living being, is not followed or understood and there is a deterioration amongst the society, He has to take some form or send someone to enlighten, encourage and revive the masses

Regards

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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby vignesh » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:56 pm

In these stanzas, Lord Krishna points out that He initiated the lineage of Vivasvan, Manu, Isvaku and others in the begining of creation through the Vedas. It is the same ancient vedic wisdom which is being revived by Lord Krishna through Arjuna.

regards
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:14 pm

Hari Om...

Chapter Four

Fundamentally this is a chapter where Krishna is called upon to prove to Arjuna that what He is propounding is nothing but the essence of the Vedas.

That Arjuna should so question is not surprising if we examine our own hearts: we grew up hearing our parents expound an art of correct living, which we passed off as parental banter.

Then we struggle with life and someone tells us study the Gita and we say what is this new thing and what if it is not in sync with the tenets of my upbringing? So we are then explained that this is the manual of living...In just the same way Arjuna who is a learned archer, who has studied the Vedas and the Vedangas as a student along with all his other study of weaponry, is a bit worried that this Karma Yoga that his friend Krishna is expounding probably is disconnected from his own fundamental learning.

This is why Krishna is having to prove to him that what He has just lectured him about (Ch 2 and 3) are nothing but an interpretation of the tenets of the Vedas (ie the Upanishad part).

Right at this stage may we know that the Gita is considered an Upanishad because it is the teaching obtained by a student at the feet (or sitting close to) of his teacher. (We may remember that Arjuna has already requested to be considered a student when he prayed,

“Karpanya doshopahat svabhavah
Prichhami tvam dharmasammudha chetah
Yachchhreyah syan nishchitam bruhi tanme,
Shishyas te ham shadhi mam tvam prapannam.”


Synopsis Verse One: So in Verse One: Krishna is establishing that what He is telling Arjuna now is what He taught Surya Bhagawan at the start of creation, followed by Manu who in turn taught it to Iksvakoo the ancient ruler of the Solar dynasty which ruled over Ayodhya.

Here a very stunning methodology is being placed on the table, something that is so very very crucial for our understanding of how a leadership should work or how it is expected to work.

The sun is marked as the beginning of creation. We know without heat and light no energy is generated and without energy no creation or production is possible. Therefore all creation depends on energy. Hence Sun as the primal energy that should have snowballed creation, is being pointed here.

That means even the Sun’s functioning adheres to My Law, says Krishna. Nothing in creation is outside the ambit of the Universal Order/Law. Be it inanimate or animate, all have a Law governing them and duty demands their adherence.
Thereafter Knowledge was vested in the hands of Rulers.

Most critically what is being told here is that the Supreme Knowledge was not given to the predictable brahmana class but (fabulous relaisation this is) in fact to the ruler, the head, the leader, the governor of the people, whoever that be.
During the days when Kings ruled, there was a Court Advisor or teacher, Rajguru, who was the custodian of Spiritual Knowledge. Those were also days when the King (leadership) thirsted for Knowledge, for perfection for purity, for honesty. Which was why he patronised a teacher. We have come across many stories where a King would meet a fakir who was dirty etc but who spoke so much wisdom that the King would ask him to come and grace his palace.

Point being made here is that a country can be value driven, can flourish only when the leadership is equally committed to values, to ethical conduct, to Knowledge and to right living. Values are not like algebra that they can be taught. They have to be displayed and then learnt by novices through observation.

So if there is a nation completely lacking in values, ethics, honesty, where poverty reigns, where corruption is a way of life, then may we know that the leadership lacks the Knowledge of the Supreme.

That was how in the old days, royalty patronised religion. Equally we will see that institutions like hospitals and schools which are built in the name of God are more committed to delivering services to their customers than the others. Equally a lineage that believes in its duty to handover scriptural learnings to its next generation also keeps the spiritual values flying high. That is what is needed to ensure right learning too, and that is what Krishna too is saying: that the Supreme Knowledge has a lineage, a guruparampara, so that Knowledge passes from the hands of a learned Master and not through a scholastic text.
Another learning that comes to us here is this: typically Knowledge was held in safe custody by Kshatriyas What a fabulous thought this is. If we refer back to the caste system, we know that Brahmanas are the Knowledge Creators and Kshatriyas the Knowledge Disseminators – they held Knowledge, guarded it, protected it. Kshatriyas protected Dharma with their life. Dharma included the Knowledge of Dharma as well.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:17 pm

Hari Om..


Verse 2:

Synopsis: The Knowledge that came down generations was lost in between...

Krishna says ‘here’. Lost here.

A person gives, another has to take. If we focus on this we see that giving is complete when the intention to give is exercised.

As for taking, if the receiver takes it but does not put it to use... or destroys it, or does not pass it on to the next generation, then there is a sin happening.

Truly, It is the duty, in accordance with the law of yagnas that what has been bestowed upon you, you have to pass on. Or what you inherit must be used to improve the environment and a part of that is leaving it in usable manner for the next generation. If a generation receives knowledge from its predecessors, it must render it fit to be passed on to the next. But when a generation of people fail to do so, there is adharma.

At a very primary level too, if a man who is educated fails to educate his child, he commits paapa. One must ponder on the nuances of this... it is very deep and demands a purity and perfection in parenting.

In expkaining to Arjuna the degeneration of an era wherein the knowledge is not accessible to all or where the Knowledge is not serving mankind, He says, that the knowledge has its destiny too. In some eras, this Knowledge readily serves mankind. In some eras the Knowledge is as if clouded, covered, hidden, lost, unavailable. Or it falls into disuse simply owing to it not being used. My mother gave me a sewing machine which gathered rust and had to be finally thrown away. That is an example.
To understand this figuratively, there is a lamp burning in a room and daily it is being fed with oil so that the lamp is always burning bright. Then the priest falls ill and his next in command fails to feed the lamp with oil.... the flame goes off and then there is darkness.’

So if Knowledge falls into disuse, Knowledge will be buried and darkness will set in. In some eras darkness wins, in some eras Light wins. In some eras despite darkness winning, some people reach out for light....and sustain it in the small corners of their home...other people enjoy the dark ways of smothering avidya. Question is, does the environment influence us? Or do we create the environment? Do we have the freedom to still make choices no matter how dark our surroundings? To an extent our vasanas can obstruct but constant abidance at the feet of Truth – be it through japa, prayer, yagna, anything to overwrite our low vasanas.

We can make right choices even in a wrong environment. The will to make the right choices is Purushaarta.
Sri Adi Sankara took birth in the 8th century in an era where Hinduism was at its nadir. Where Vedik instruction was misinterpreted, misused by caste brahmanas to amass wealth, where the holy deities who assist Bhagawan in governing this world were portrayed as wicked, blood sucking monsters, where scriptures were interpreted to suit the vocations of religious vendors. Where new religions were designed to suit the convenience of low living.

But Sri Sankara remained single pointed in wresting the Vedas from a depraved society (a lot like Bhagawan in His Matsya avatar wresting the Vedas from demon Hayagriva to restore it to Brahma in time for the next rund of creation) and in as short a time as 20 years, he wrote bhashyas on the Prasthana Trayi, the Gita, the Brahmasutras.... created matha-s, halls of education, established temples and invested society with the right rituals in accordance with their levels, taught them the art of worship, fought off all argumentative dissenters of Hinduism, emphatically established the Vedic religion by delivering Advaita to the people and ascended the throne of sarvajna peetham – or the most knowledgable before attaining Samadhi at the age of 32.

When man does what is impossible we call him an avatar. But truth is man has a choice to be divine!

So this knowledge was lost during the time when Bhagawan assumed the avatar of a fish, it was lost again during the time of Arjuna in the period of the Mahabharata, it was lost again during the 4-7th century until Sri Sankara came and restored it.

Knowledge has its destiny. So says Krishna. It is up to man to ensure Knowledge is shining bright always.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sganesh0112 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:30 pm

Pujya Gurudev, in the introduction to this chapter clearly explains that the earlier training in “path of action” helps one integrate his mind and intellect and become fit for the absorption and assimilation of the greater Truth , through the process of contemplation and meditation. Pujya Gurudev further reiterates in his introduction that the ‘path of knowledge ‘ or ‘jnana yoga’ is the main arch-way, through which all pilgrims must pass in order to reach the Temple of the Self.
Under the above introduction, when we look into the first three verses of this chapter we can summarise them as follows;-
The main theme is dissemination of the Supreme Knowledge through times immemorial. It has been widely acknowledged that Sun is the centre of the universe and all energy emanates from and merges back in him. In the first verse the Blessed Lord declares that he has given this knowledge first to the Sun God (Vivaswan), who in turn passed it on to the first Human and who in turn passed it on to the first dynasty or solar dynasty kings (i.e. this knowledge was first taught to the worshippers of Sun ). Historians all would say that Sun worship is one of the oldest forms of the worship known in our entire human evolution. So, what comes to mind is that the energy of the Sun is a must for sustenance of life on this planet and our ancient ancestors knew the importance of the same and hence they all considered Sun is the first God. Hence, the present verse that Lord states that he had given this knowledge to the Sun, once again unstintingly points to the Ananta roopa of the Supreme Lord.
Now our limited scientific explorations also say that the presence of life is possible on a similar planet around any star which in turn acts as that planet’s sun. So this supreme knowledge is not only restricted to our earth and its beings but to all the beings of the entire cosmos, wherever life does exist. That means” this knowledge of the divine content and its possibilities in man are indeed eternal”.
Now, when we look into the second verse, it is clear that there has been/is/will be times when this supreme knowledge has been lost/is lost/will be lost, through the “dark ages of undivine life”. This can happen any where in the cosmos.” At that time, a great master appears on the horizon to inspire, encourage and to lead the generation away from the ruts of sorrow (arisen due to monstrous materialism), onto the high roads cultural revival.” Now we all know, that after the Second World War, the entire world was in deepest of sorrows – cause of loss millions of life and extensive destruction in most of the countries and under the shadow of this sorrow our Nation was reborn after almost a millennium under the various rulers foreign to our culture, but we being the followers of the great sanatana dharma and with the main concept of dharma ‘Athithi Devo Bhava’ adjusted our own self to their requirements by accepting their ways of culture and in the process losing all that was precious to us and thus forgetting our own Dharma. So much so, we also adopted the language of our Athithis – forgetting our own devabhasha. At that time, it was the tireless effort of the visionary like our Pujya Gurudev who came down from the Himalayas and inspired us in the common language(English) to those who could make the difference- to learn about ourselves. In a way Pujya Gurudev introduced the Indians to the real India, - the supreme seat of knowledge. Not only Indians, Pujya Gurudev, also took this knowledge beyond our Nation to the entire suffering humanity to inspire them and give them hope for a better future.

The third verse clearly instructs us about the noble and cherished Guru-Shishya Parampara, through which our ancient knowledge of the Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads, Brahmasutras and all the other treasures of the Knowledge of the Supreme have been protected and guarded against all outside influences has been passed on to us and our posterity. But in this world full of materialism, we cannot accept anything as abstract a subject as Self- Atma – Paramatma and there is tendency in us to strike it down as hearsay, but we can only accept if it is proved again and again to us. In this field, our holy sages have come to experience this Supreme Self and thus their spontaneous explanation about their experiences have all been recorded and are to be accepted on Faith and Faith only, till the individual himself experiences the Supreme and for all this a close interaction between the Teacher and taught is a must and this relationship must be totally established under trust. Hence, the close relation of the Guru-Shishya has been highlighted here. Thus this knowledge of the Supreme Self has also been attributed as the Supreme Secret, because this knowledge is beyond the comprehension of our senses, beyond the comprehension of the Body, Mind and Intellect and is only attained by an individual by his own experiences under the guidance of his Guru and with full faith in his Sadhana.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:10 pm

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

What a lovely start for this Chapter! :) Special thanks to Meera and Ganeshji for their deep reflections!

Let us move further.

Kindly post :

Verse 4 - Uma
Verse 5 - Muruganji
Verse 6- Vighneshaji

HGRR

Terms and Definitions 1 - Muruganji
Thoughts and Concepts 5 - Vigneshaji
Selections for Reflection 2 -Uma

Verses for Memorisation 6 - For all

Regards

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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:50 pm

HARI OM

VERSE-1

In the last verses of chapter three Arjuna has been asked to kill desire, the great enemy of man by subduing the mind with the help of intellect.Cultivation of detachment
is the central point of karma yoga, which can be obtained only through the eradication of desire.therefore controlling the senses and the mind
by the intellect, and the eradication of desire,-all these are the parts of the discipline of karmayoga. This imperishable knowledge imparted by lord was nothing
other than an intelligent reinterpretation of the ancient sacred vedic science. This immortal yoga was first taught to the sun-god and that through him was
handed down to his sun Manu and through him it was imparted to his sun Iksvaku and other kings of solardynasty.Lord is pointing out this to trace the origin
and history of this tradition as well as to show that of all the people on the earth, the kshatriyas were the first to adopt and propagate this teaching amoung
them, and that the practice has been in vogue from eternity.The knowledge of divinity lurking in an individual and the techenique, by which it can be completely
completely manifested is the theme of the veda scriptures.The truth of this theme is eternal. Electricity was present even before it was discovered by the
scientist.So, too the divine nature of the individual cannot be destroyed because of nonassertion of it.Modern science accepts that the creation of the universe
must have started with the sun as a source of all energy. With this very creation, the great knowledge of self was taught to the world.


VERSE-2

Transmitted in succession from father to son, the practice of karmayoga remained in vogue amoung the famous kshatriya kings of ancient days for several generations
before his advent.A ruler who also knows the truth of the vedas is called a Ragersi.The statement that the yoga remained known to the ragersi's does not mean
that it was unknown to others.It only suggests that royal sages have been in the front rank as far as the knowledge and practice of karmayoga are concerned.
The practice of karmayoga remained alive as a spiritual discipline. But even as people gradually developed attachment for wordly enjoyments the number of man
qualified to practice karmayoga began to decline and this process steadly went on till the holy tradition altogether died out.That is why lord says that
for a long time past the practice of karmayoga had more or less disappeared from the earth. When this yoga started declining adharma started increasing.
When man experiance sufferings due to his own wordly attachments there arises a great spiritual soul to awake man to inspire, encourage and lead the generation
away from the ruts of sorrow to the higher roads of cultural revival. Lord rightly evaluates the periode of mahabharata and declares, this yoga has been lost
here by long laps of time.

VERSE-3

Seeing that this yoga has been lost by falling in to the hands of the weak, who could not controll their senses and seeing that the generation had not been able
to attain the objective of life, the lord teaches the same ancient yoga, the supreme secret to Arjuna as he is a great devotee of long standing and beloved friend of the lord.
Mind and intellect blossom only in a climate of love, freedom, friendship and mutual understanding. Arjuna had this qualities required for the heathy transfer
of the subjective knowledge.

A master can feel inspired and instruct effectively only when he establishes an affectionate rapport with the students.
The words sah ava and puratana indicates the eternal character of this yoga. The word 'te' indicates Arjuna's special qualification to receive the secret.The word
'adya' indicates the occation or circumstances of the revelation of the secret.
The supreme secret indicates that an individual, however wise he may be, may not suspect the existance of atman in him. The self being that which is beyond intellect,
the reasoning capacity in an individual cannot suspect the existance of an eternal, which illumines the thoughts rising in the intellect.This science of truth
is called the supreme secret.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:58 pm

Sorry for the delay in postings. My computer was not functioning well. so, there was delay. I would like to join this forum on chapter 3 and like to be in category-1
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:57 pm

Hari OM

Welcome back Sathiavathiji.

Verse 5
Bahuni me vyatitani,janmani tava carjuna
Tanyaham veda sarvan,na tvam vettha paramtapa

Bahuni-many, me-my,vyatitani-have passed away, janmani-births,tava-your,ca-and,Arjuna-O Arjuna, tani-them,aham-I, veda-know, sarvani-all, na-not,tvam-you,vettha-know, paramtapa-O Paramtapa.

The Blessed Lord said:

Many births of Mine have passed as well as yours, O Arjuna; I know them all but you know them not,O Paramtapa ( scorcher of foes)

Terms and Definitions:
1 What does the term “ Parantapa” mean?
“Scorcher of foes”- Sri Krishna uses it as an appellation for Arjuna.

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:26 am

Hari Om...

Sincere apologies for interrupting the new posts with verse 3. My mistake that I did not notice that we were studying 1-3.

Do forgive me, and I am posting Verse 3 now.

(Sorry Muruganji, Uma...)

Verse 3

Synopsis: Krishna affirms that what He has taught Arjuna in Ch 3 is exactly what He had taught Surya, Manu and Iksvaku. Krishna clarifies that He is referring to the Supreme Secret, Brahma Vidya.

Three points here:

a. The Supreme Law does not change – remains the same in all times. Hence is Sat. That being so, it is verily the Lord Himself that we experience in the Law. To come under the protection of such a Law is our good fortune.

b. For You are my devotee – here Bhagawan is opening up the meaning of ‘devotee’. And it is beautiful to see that devotion is not what we choose to interpret it as: praying. Devotion is surrender. It does not need words. But when our whole body mind and intellect crumbles thus pushing away the ego that claims its supremacy, we offer ourselves unto full protection of the Lord. When I give up This, I offer myself to That fully. This surrender is very experiential and no amount of words can explain it. But we get to see that in Arjuna. He heard Krishna’s advice and that only made him feel more miserable and he realised he was not capable of thinking ‘on his own’. So in that heartfelt prayer (which some teachers say we should adopt as our prayer to the Lord) kaarpanyadoho pahatasvabhavah prichhami tvam dharmasamoodha cheetah... Arjuna surrenders tearfully and totally.

Devotion is a complete offering of oneself to the teacher. It is also a complete love and desire in the teacher to uplift this student. It is a willingness of the teacher to allow the student the freedom to argue, debate. It is the respect and reverence of a student to debate knowing that he asks because he does not know and that he knows that the teacher knows! When this is the attitude, the student verily empowers the teacher to give him all that He knows! When the air between student and teacher is thus engaged in a mutual love and respect, the teaching finds a beautiful path on which to flow from the teacher into the student.

Arjuna’s enquiring, the honesty in his angst, the complete absence of ego in his surrender, created the right space for Krishna as teacher, to occupy.

So when Krishna says ‘I taught you’ He is saying the Knowledge has been given; was able to pass from Him to him.

c. There was a time when the ancient message of Yoga was the preserve of the Brahmin caste occupants. They conferred upon themselves a piety and exclusivity and built barriers to prevent others from entering. These others were typically those of lower castes. Uniquely this was the meaning that they all chose to give the word ‘Rahasyam’ – that it will be out of bounds for the lesser human. Gurudev clarifies this emphatically that the knowledge in the Vedas is ours by birth and accessing it, studying it etc is why we are here born as humans.

Krishna uses the word rahasyam to indicate how deep within the caves of our ‘heart’ this Knowledge lies; that all our worldly knowledge will not enable us realise that the Truth of our self, our birth, our existence, our human-ness, our relationship to this creation – lies in our essential One-ness with the Lord. That the Cosnciousness which enlivens all creation is in me too, enlivening me, and that Consciousness is my essence, the God I seek. That it lies beyond the intellect hence I can never seek to know It intellectually; since the intellect is the highest equipment I the human, have, the knowledge of this Consciousness will remain veiled to me. To know It, I need to transcend this BMI. Yet it is this very Truth that makes all else possible for me, both the Knowing of the Truth and the Not Knowing of the Truth! Both Vidya and Avidya are verily illumined by this very Truth. Hence the name Uttamam Rahasyam.

Thus Krishna is gently guiding Arjuna out of his BMI conscious living towards a life that chooses to look beyond at a life that wills itself to strive and climb out into the beyond. For the BMI aided living finally only serves the ego. And the ego cannot and will not show us our true Home. The ego want this. Bhagawan wants us to reach out for That. And Arjuna’s confusion is nothing but the result of an over active ego that is trying to keep him reined to the good and the bad of worldly living; tying him down to samsara, finally.

Hari Om..
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