Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds Chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.
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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby vignesh » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:00 pm

I have been learning and benifiting a lot by participating in this discussion forum. Thank you all for your nice posts. I attended CHYK camp and this forum helps me to keep in touch with our scriptures. I will participate as category 1, as I did in the previous chapter 4.
regards
vignesh
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby murugans61 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:17 am

Hari OM

I am a student of CIF online courses and currently doing the Bagavad Gita course.
I wish to engage myself as category 1 participant.
pranams
murugan
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sganesh0112 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:47 am

Hari OM

I am a student of CIF online courses and currently doing the Bhagavad Gita course.
I wish to engage myself as category 1 participant as I did for the last chapter.

pranams

S Ganesh
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:43 pm

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

I am Uma from Mumbai, currently student of online Bhagvad Gita course of Mission, managing this forum in the absence of Padmajaji, the main coordinator.

I would be Category 1.

Other interested sadhaks, please post your interests any time and join this online discussion forum.

Thanks and Regards

uma
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:44 pm

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Let us now study Stanza 1 and 2 from the Chapter 5, Yoga of True Renunciation - Karma Sanyas yoga.

The current theme is Attainment of goal through action and renunciation of action.

Kindly post :

Verse 1, 2 Uma

Terms and Definitions

1 Vighneshaji

Thoughts and Concepts

1, 2 - Ganeshaji

3, 4 - Muruganji

Selections for Reflection

1, 2 - Vighneshaji

Regards

uma
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:55 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

अथ पञ्चमोSध्याय:

अर्जुन उवाच

संन्यासं कर्मणां कृष्ण पुनर्योगं च शंससि |
यच्छ्रेय एतयोरेकं तन्मे ब्रूहि सुनिश्चितं ||१ ||

arjuna uvaach

sannyasam karmanaam krushna punaryogam na shamsasi
yacchrey etayorekam tanme bruhi sunischitam

संन्यासं -renunciation, कर्मणां- of actions, कृष्ण: -O Krishna, पुन: -again, योगं-Yoga, च- and, शंससि-(you) praise, यत्- which, श्रेय: -better, एतयो: -of the two, एकं - one, तत् -that, मे-to me, ब्रूहि - tell, सुनिश्चितं -conclusively

Arjuna said:
1. Renunciation of actions, O Krishna, You praise and again Yoga, performance of actions. Tell me conclusively that which is the better of the two.

श्री भगवानुवाच

संन्यास: कर्मयोगश्च नि:श्रेयसकरावुभौ |
तयोस्तु कर्मसंन्यासात्कर्मयोगो विशिष्यते ||२ ||

Shree Bhagavaanuvaach

sanyaash karamayogascha ni:shreyasakaraavubhou
tayostu karmasanyaasaatkarmayoga vishishyate

संन्यास: -renunciation, कर्म-योग: -Yoga of action, च- and, नि:श्रेयस्करौ -leading to the highest bliss, उभौ -both, तयो: - of these two, तु -but, कर्म-संन्यासात - than renunciation of action, कर्म - योग: - Yoga of action, विशिष्यते -is superior

The Blessed Lord said:

2. Renunciation of action and Yoga of action both lead to the highest bliss, but of the two, Yoga of action is superior to the renunciation of action.

Regards
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sganesh0112 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:15 pm

Hari Om! and Pranams!

Thoughts and Concepts:

1. How does Arjuna's question in the third chapter differ from that of the fifth chapter?

The fifth chapter opens with a doubt raised by Arjuna. It is almost similar to but not the same as the one he raised at the beginning of the third chapter. At the end of Sri Krishna's discourses in chapter II, the disturbed mind of Arjuna could not come to a definite decision whether action had any place at all in the life of Spiritual-seeking, and hence his question on the knowleldge versus action at the beginning of the third chapter. But in the fifth chapter, the Pandava Prince only asks which of the two - renunciation of action or participation in action - is the nobler and greater. (Introduction)


2. What is Arjuna's question at the beginning of chapter five?

Samnyaasam karmanaam Krishna punaryogam ca samsasi
yacchreya etayorekam tanme bruhi sunishcitam


Renunciation of actions, O Krishna, you praise again and again Yoga performance of actions. Tell me conclusively that which the the better of the two. (5.1)
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Posting on behalf of Muruganji, as he is away on a tour.

HGRR : Thoughts and Concepts

3. Renunciation of action and full participation in action are two different exercises to be practiced serially and not simultaneously. (5.1)

4. What are three stages in the spiritual process of self-evolution?

The spiritual process of self-evolution falls into three stages:

(1) Desire prompted activity
(2) Selfless dedicated activity
(3) quiet Meditation

Man is esstentially prone to be inert. If left to temselves, the majority of men would demand in life only food to eat, with the elast amount of exertion and plenty of idle hours. From this unproductive inertia, the first stage of man's growth in his being awakened to activity, and this is the most easily and efficently done when the individual's desires are whipped up. Thus, in the firststage of his evolution, desire prompted activity takes man out of his mental and intellectual inertia to vigorous activity.

In the second stage of his growth, he becomes tired of the desire motivated activities, and feels energetic hen advised to spend at least a few hours in a noble field, with a spirit of dedication and service. Such activities are generally undertaken in the service of others, where the individual works with the least ego.

When an individual in the second stage of self development works with his ego subdued, in a spirit of devotion and dedication, he comes to exhaust his vasanas. Thus unloaded, his mind and intellect develope the wings of meditation and become capable of taking longer flights into the subtle realms of joy and peace. This is the third stage in seeker's self evolution. (5.2)
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sathiavathi » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:55 am

HARI OM

I am sathiavathi and was there in 3rd and 4th chapter discussions.I would like to be in category 1.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sathiavathi » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:18 am

PRANAM TO ALL
HARI OM
With lords grace,Pujya gurudev,and pujya guruji Tejomayanandaji's blessings, we successfully completed the study of chapter 4.of Geeta.Thanks to all participents,
Umaji, murugangi,Vignashji,Ganeshji for their excellent reflections and thoughts.Now let us start our study of chapter 5. of Geeta- 'KARMASAMNYASAYOGA'.

CHAPTER-5


The chapter-5 deals with the paths of action and knowledge.The term samnyasa is an equivalent of sankhyayoga or the paths of knowledge. That is why the chapter
has been given the title of "karmasmnyasayoga"or yogas of action and knowledge.The chapter opens with Arjuna's query regarding the superiority of path of knowledge
or path of action. Answering the question in the 2nd verse,Lord says that though both are conducive to spiritual good,yet path of action is superior to path
of knowledge.Pointing out the greatness of karmayogi in the third, the 4th and 5th He establishes the oneness of sankhyayoga and and karmayoga on the ground of identity
of their fruit.INthe 6th it is stated that without practicing karmayoga perfection in sankhyayoga is difficult to attain, where as karmayoga brings realization of
god in no time.7th verse describes the detachment of the karmayogi. The non-doership of the sankhyayogi has been brought out in the 8th and 9th verses.The 10th
and 11th verses reveals a man of action and points out that actions of karmayogis make for self purification.The 12th verse shows that karmayogi attains ever
lasting peace, where as he who acts with a selfish motive gets bondage.Depicting the state of sankhyayogi in the 13th,it is stated in the 14th and 15th that the
Absolute determines not the doership nor the doing of beings, noreven their contact with the fruit of actions, nor does it assosiate itself with the virtue or
sin of anyone .beings get deluded only because their knowledge stands veiled by ignorance.The 16th reveals the glory of knowledge.The 17th describes the practice
of jnanayoga. Verses 18 to 20 describe the state of exalted soul who is constantly established in identiy with brahma, how he views all alike and attains the highest
goal.Verse 21 shows the way to the attainment. Verse 22 declares enjoyments to be a source of sufferings and says that men possessing discretion do not indulge
in them.Verse 23 calls him a yogi and happy man, who can controll the urgings of lust and anger.The state of Brahma, the abode of eternal peace is described in verses
24 to 26. Verses 27 and 28 deal with the practice of meditation and its fruits in a nutshell.The verse 29 concludes the chapter by announcing the highest peace to be the
result of knowing God as the enjoyer of all sacrifices and austerities, the supreme lord of all the worlds and disinterested friend of all beings.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby vignesh » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:46 pm

Terms and Definitions:
1 What are the mantra, brahmana and aranyaka divisions of the Vedas?
The " mantra" portion of the Vedas expresses an all- absorbing sense of wonderment of the deluded at the sight of Nature's vastness in strength and beauty. The "brahmana" portion prescribes ways and means by which ritualistic activities can be undertaken for the satisfaction of one's material desires. fter the" brahmana" portion, therre is, in all the textbooks of Veda, a separate section called the " aranyaka" which prescribes varieties of worship-methods called the" upasanas", which are to be undertaken by pure minds uncontaminated by any desire.

Selections for Reflection:
1 The secret wealth of the Vedas, which was enjoyed by only a choice few, was" nationalised" to become a free heritage to be enjoyed by all seekers among mankind. With this subtle missionary work, Sri Krishna brought Hinduism and its scientific methods within the reaach of every man living in the world.

2 Desireless activities ( yajnas) make fine adjustments in the mind and intellect equipment of seekers and provide them with a pair of wings with which they can fly across the finite straight into the realms of the Infinite.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:53 am

Hari Om. Pranam.


Many thanks to Sathyavathiji for giving a gist of what we are going to learn in the fifth chapter.

Here are the verses 1 to 2 for our discussion. Please post your thoughts,
your study notes, reflections on these verses.

Offering this garland of verses to you O Krishna with Love from all of
us...please help us in our studies.
============================================================

अथ पञ्चमोSध्याय:

अर्जुन उवाच

संन्यासं कर्मणां कृष्ण पुनर्योगं च शंससि |
यच्छ्रेय एतयोरेकं तन्मे ब्रूहि सुनिश्चितं ||१ ||

arjuna uvaach

sannyasam karmanaam krushna punaryogam na shamsasi
yacchrey etayorekam tanme bruhi sunischitam

संन्यासं -renunciation, कर्मणां- of actions, कृष्ण: -O Krishna, पुन: -again, योगं-Yoga, च- and, शंससि-(you) praise, यत्- which, श्रेय: -better, एतयो: -of the two, एकं - one, तत् -that, मे-to me, ब्रूहि - tell, सुनिश्चितं -conclusively

Arjuna said:
1. Renunciation of actions, O Krishna, You praise and again Yoga, performance of actions. Tell me conclusively that which is the better of the two.

श्री भगवानुवाच

संन्यास: कर्मयोगश्च नि:श्रेयसकरावुभौ |
तयोस्तु कर्मसंन्यासात्कर्मयोगो विशिष्यते ||२ ||

Shree Bhagavaanuvaach

sanyaash karamayogascha ni:shreyasakaraavubhou
tayostu karmasanyaasaatkarmayoga vishishyate

संन्यास: -renunciation, कर्म-योग: -Yoga of action, च- and, नि:श्रेयस्करौ -leading to the highest bliss, उभौ -both, तयो: - of these two, तु -but, कर्म-संन्यासात - than renunciation of action, कर्म - योग: - Yoga of action, विशिष्यते -is superior

The Blessed Lord said:

2. Renunciation of action and Yoga of action both lead to the highest bliss, but of the two, Yoga of action is superior to the renunciation of action.

HGRR

Terms and Definitions:

1 What are the mantra, brahmana and aranyaka divisions of the Vedas?

The " mantra" portion of the Vedas expresses an all- absorbing sense of wonderment of the deluded at the sight of Nature's vastness in strength and beauty. The "brahmana" portion prescribes ways and means by which ritualistic activities can be undertaken for the satisfaction of one's material desires. fter the" brahmana" portion, therre is, in all the textbooks of Veda, a separate section called the " aranyaka" which prescribes varieties of worship-methods called the" upasanas", which are to be undertaken by pure minds uncontaminated by any desire.

Thoughts and Concepts

1. How does Arjuna's question in the third chapter differ from that of the fifth chapter?

The fifth chapter opens with a doubt raised by Arjuna. It is almost similar to but not the same as the one he raised at the beginning of the third chapter. At the end of Sri Krishna's discourses in chapter II, the disturbed mind of Arjuna could not come to a definite decision whether action had any place at all in the life of Spiritual-seeking, and hence his question on the knowleldge versus action at the beginning of the third chapter. But in the fifth chapter, the Pandava Prince only asks which of the two - renunciation of action or participation in action - is the nobler and greater. (Introduction)


2. What is Arjuna's question at the beginning of chapter five?

संन्यासं कर्मणां कृष्ण पुनर्योगं च शंससि |
यच्छ्रेय एतयोरेकं तन्मे ब्रूहि सुनिश्चितं ||१ ||

Samnyaasam karmanaam Krishna punaryogam ca samsasi
yacchreya etayorekam tanme bruhi sunishcitam

Renunciation of actions, O Krishna, you praise again and again Yoga performance of actions. Tell me conclusively that which the the better of the two. (5.1)



3. Renunciation of action and full participation in action are two different exercises to be practiced serially and not simultaneously. (5.1)

4. What are three stages in the spiritual process of self-evolution?

The spiritual process of self-evolution falls into three stages:

(1) Desire prompted activity
(2) Selfless dedicated activity
(3) quiet Meditation

Man is esstentially prone to be inert. If left to temselves, the majority of men would demand in life only food to eat, with the elast amount of exertion and plenty of idle hours. From this unproductive inertia, the first stage of man's growth in his being awakened to activity, and this is the most easily and efficently done when the individual's desires are whipped up. Thus, in the firststage of his evolution, desire prompted activity takes man out of his mental and intellectual inertia to vigorous activity.

In the second stage of his growth, he becomes tired of the desire motivated activities, and feels energetic hen advised to spend at least a few hours in a noble field, with a spirit of dedication and service. Such activities are generally undertaken in the service of others, where the individual works with the least ego.

When an individual in the second stage of self development works with his ego subdued, in a spirit of devotion and dedication, he comes to exhaust his vasanas. Thus unloaded, his mind and intellect develope the wings of meditation and become capable of taking longer flights into the subtle realms of joy and peace. This is the third stage in seeker's self evolution. (5.2)



Selections for Reflection:

1 The secret wealth of the Vedas, which was enjoyed by only a choice few, was" nationalised" to become a free heritage to be enjoyed by all seekers among mankind. With this subtle missionary work, Sri Krishna brought Hinduism and its scientific methods within the reaach of every man living in the world.

2 Desireless activities ( yajnas) make fine adjustments in the mind and intellect equipment of seekers and provide them with a pair of wings with which they can fly across the finite straight into the realms of the Infinite
uma
 
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sathiavathi » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:45 am

HARI OM

VERSE-1
In the course of instructions by the Lord, Arjuna heard words in praise of yoga of action and yoga of knowledge.Arjuna could not decide which of the
two paths was better for him.Therefore, to get the point cleared by the Lord himself, he seeks to know which of the two course is better for him.
Arjuna wants to know what course he should adopt for attaining true wishdom, whether he should follow the discipline of knowledge by hearing
and pondering the words of those possessed of real knowledge, or should take to karmayoga by performing actions without attachment and in a disinterested
way and dedicating them to God.

Verse-2

In this verse Lord declares that both yoga of knowledge and yoga of action lead one to supreme bliss.Though both paths lead to the same goal,
the realization of god, the embodiment of supreme bliss,through real wishdom, yet for a man of action like Arjuna the practice of karma yoga was
easier and hence better than yoga of knowledge.The two disciplines are conducive to supreme bliss singly and independently of each other. yet,Lord declares
that karmayoga is superior to jnanayoga. The reason in the first place is that a karma yogi is always a samnyasi or renouncer of actions even though
he is always engaged in actions. He gets freed from the bondage of birth and deaths very easily without any effort or trouble.He quickly attains god
and constantly enjoys his protection.Lastly even a little practice of karmayoga is capable of delivering one from the great fear of birth and death.
The path of knowledge on the other hand,is a rugged one and it is difficult to tread for one who has not pursued the discipline of karmayoga
in the first instance.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby vignesh » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:31 pm

The fifth chapter begins with Arjuna's doubt as to how a person can remain in duty and be free from actions at the same time. He asks Bagavan to tell him that one between Karma sannyasa and karma yoga , which is good for him.
Bagavan said that both sannyasa and karmayoga are conducing to liberation. However, among these two, karmayoga is better that sannyasa.

regards
vignesh
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby murugans61 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:52 am

Hari OM

In chapter 4 Lord advocated the renunciation of action through many verses ( 18,19,21,24,32,33,37 and 41). But in the last verse of the same chapter he commended the performance of action. Since, two conflicting courses can not be adopted simultaneously, Arjuna raises the doubt, “ which one is better”?

Lord said, Renunciation and performance of action both lead to freedom; of the two, performance of action is superior to the renunciation of action. This advice is to be taken with reference to and appropriate to the sadhaka. These two are not two independent sadhanas but they are interlinked.

pranams
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:45 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Sathyavathiji, Vigheshaji and Muruganji have aptly summarised Verse 1 and 2.

Arjuna is perplexed and requesting Bhagvan Krishna to explain, which one is better, perfoming action or renouncing it completely, as bhagvan has advocated both earlier.
Karma yoga and Sannyas are interlinked, they are not exclusive, but they are serial.

I will wait for today, for Ganeshaji to post his reflections. Also I request Ganehsaji to post a brief summary of Chapter 4.

Tomorrow, we will proceed with the next verse of Chapter 5.

Regards

uma
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:46 am

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Let us now study Stanza 3 from the Chapter 5, Yoga of True Renunciation - Karma Sanyas yoga.


The current theme is Nature of Perpetual Sannyasi.
Kindly post :

Verse 3 - Sathyavathiji

HGRR:

Terms and Definitions 2 - Vighneshaji
Thoughts and Concepts 5 - Muruganji
Selections for Reflection 3 - Uma

Verses for Memorisation 3 - For all

Regards
uma
 
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sathiavathi » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:12 pm

HARI OM
VERSE-3
Jneyah sa nitya-sannyasi yo na dyesti na kanksati
nirdvandvo hi mahabaho sukham bandhat pramucyate.

mahabaho-mighty armed Arjuna; ya-who;

na-neither; dyesti-hates; na-nor;

kanksati-desires; sa-he(a karmayogi);

nitya-sannyasi jneyah-should be evern considered a renouncer;

hi-for; nirdvandvo- he who is free from the pairs of opposites;

sukham-easily; bandhat-from bondage; pramucyate-isfreed.

The karmayogi who neither hates nor desires should be ever considered
a renouncer.For, Arjuna, he who is free from the pairs of opposites is easily freed
freed from bondage.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby murugans61 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:32 pm

Hari OM

Thoughts and Concepts:

5)" To go beyond the pairs of opposites is to transcend the mind". - Explain.

Likes and dislikes , success and failure, joy and sorrow and such other pairs of opposites are the wheels on which the mind rolls forward earning the experinece of life. Our intelect can register a situation or a condition only with reference to the comparitive estimate of its opposite. Thus, I can understand light only with reference to my knowledge of darkness. Comparison is the only way of understanding given to man. If there is no contrast for a thing, we cannot gain knowledge of that thing.
If comparison and contrast are the methods "of knowing" then to renounce them is to renounce the vehicle. In the field of plurality where comparison and contrast are possible, I can use the vehicle of the intellect and mind. To go beyond the perception of contrast is the means to transcend the inner instrument of mind and intellect. ( 5.3)

pranams
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:43 am

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Selections for Reflections:

3. To free oneself from the pairs of opposites is to be free from all the limitations of mortal existence among finite objects. (5.3)

Regards
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