Satsang - random corner..

Open Discussion Forum for general public to discuss and debate the fine nuances of Vedanta and its role in spirituality. Rules apply. Registration necessary.
Forum rules
Open Discussion Forum for general public to discuss and debate the fine nuances of Vedanta and its role in spirituality. Rules apply. Registration necessary.

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby murugans61 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:50 am

Hari OM

Random corner is brilliant idea and thank you Meeraji and Padmajaji for starting this.

As I was trying to answer the questions posted by Umaji under the topic Freedom and Licence, I have come acorss the following example given by Pujya Gurudev.

The traffic lights on our roads are undoubtedly a restraint laid down by the government on our freedom; but such restraint alone lends a meaning to the freedom of movement and checks its degradation into licentiousness.

Pranams
User avatar
murugans61
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby ramkumar1049 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:59 pm

Dear Padmajaji,

Pranams.

The topic of relation between Devotion & knowledge is quite an interesting one.

Let us first understand what is devotion.

It is the Easwara Arpana & Easwara Prasada Budhdhi. Considering all our actions, however difficult that might be, as a submission to God & accept all results of such actions, (which may not be in line with our expectations) without any murmur, irritation, anger or any negative emotions. How many of us can accept this in practice though we may nod our head while listening or reading?

For devotion, one needs faith, which is unsuspecting belief, beyond minutest doubt. The faith is the most difficult one as the human intellect always intervenes & doubts. So how to get this faith, it is said that faith is from grace. The grace is of two fold nature, one is Atma kripa (self effort) & other is God's Grace, which is beyond human perception. It is also said that one gets God's grace unexpected. So now we are left with the question, how do we get God's Grace. I have been ruminating over this issue over a long time & have arrived at the conclusion that with self effort one lives in knowledge 100%, (leading a dharmic life), one will attain chitta sudhdhi, which is a precursor for Atma Gnanam, Grace will definitely dawn on the person.

So in the path of devotion there are many steps from Knowledge,Chitta sudhdhi, Grace, faith.

Hence without knowledge, devotion is impossible to acheive.

I believe that this is what Guruji meant when he said that Devotion is tastelss without knoledge.

I would welcome other's views on this.

Rgds,

G.Ramkumar.
ramkumar1049
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby Padmaja » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:53 pm

Hari Om. Pranams Ramkumar ji,

Thanks for bringing this up and enlightening us with your reflections. It is always a joy to talk about devotion and knowlege. If I remember correctly Pujya Guruji Swami Tejomayananda ji said in His article "The Nectar of Devotion" -

"Just as a fruit without juice would be tasteless similarly,knowledge without devotion is dry and uninspiring. Thus the nectar of this knowledge is devotion or bhakti to the lotus feet of the Lord."
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby Padmaja » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:03 pm

Dear Ramkumar ji,
Hari Om. Pranams.

I remember a statement by one great mahatma - 100% faith is same as Self Realisation.

Even if we don't have 100% faith right now but at least if we have correct self-evaluation ("I am not All Knowing" and "I am not All powerful"), added to that if we have ability to observe and analyse all happenings around us in detached manner with a conclusion that "universe is not a chaos but there is a order so there must be a bigger higher intellect behind it and since he clothed me and fed me when I came here as a naked helpless baby, He must be compassionate too". I think with this much knowledge also one can become a devotee. Then he gets special eyes to 'see grace'. Grace is always there but we fail to see it without devotion. Once we are able to recognize grace then we know better than to trust our deluded mind for everything. Grace becomes our intellect as though. Grace makes us put self efforts to gain chitta shuddhi, grace takes us to good Teachers, grace gives us Self Knowledge also. Grace does everything for a devotee. Devotee just has to keep holding on to grace, follow the pointers and strictly obey, whether he understands everything or not.

However, the most beautiful thing is there is no effort in holding on to this grace. Just like we dont need any effort to keep sucking on the candy in our mouth while it melts, there is no effort to keep holding on to Grace/feet of the Lord/Supreme Self/ Guru whatever name you may want to call that grace by. It itself is sweet 'juice'.

By the way, Lord's world is full of so many wonders that there are many ways to get somewhere. One can get to it the way you mentioned also. Who knows by what way Lord might pull us to Him ? and once He pulls us to Him who cares what way we got there? :D
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby murugans61 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:45 am

Hari OM

Shri Rajagopalachari, in his introductory talk to MS Subbulakshmi amma's BhajaGovindam CD, says the following on Devotion and Knowledge.
" Adi Sankara wrote a number of Vedantic works for imparting knowledge of Self and the universal spirit. He also composed a number of hymns to foster bhakti in the hearts of men. One of the hymns is the famous Bhaja Govindam. The way of devotion is not different from the way of knowledge or Gnanam. When intelligence matures and lodges securely in the mind it becomes wisdom. When wisdom is integrated into life and comes out in action it becomes bhakti. Knowledge when it becomes fully matured is bhakti.If it does not get transformed into bhakti, such knowledge is useless. To believe Gnana and Bhakti, Knowledge and devotion are different from each other is ignorance. If Sri Adi Sankara himself who drank the ocean of Gnana, as easily as water from the palms of one's hand, sang in his later years hymns to develop devotion, it is enough to show that Gnana and Bhati are one and the same. Sri Sankara packed into his Bhaja Govindam the substance of all vedanta and set the oneness of Gnana and Bhakti to melodious music".

My understanding of Pujya Gurudev's quote is as follows:

School education prepares one for college education. College education completes one's academic pursuits.
Without proper school education, one can not grasp the subjects of college education. With out completing college education, one can not achieve worldly academic excellence. Hence both school education and college education are "education", at different points of time, and both play crucial roles in order to achieve academic excellence.

Pranams
User avatar
murugans61
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby Padmaja » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:54 am

Hari Om. Pranams.

This is a very interesting discussion. 'knowledge' and 'devotion'(smaller case) is not same as 'Knowledge' and 'Devotion' (upper case). 'Knowledge' and 'Devotion' (upper case) is One ! We may call that One as 'Supreme Devotion' aka 'Supreme Knowledge'.

'knowledge' and 'devotion' (lower case) are two ways to achieve that One. In my opinion, 'knowledge' and 'devotion' are two paths that often run almost parallel till they meet. However, if they go hand in hand (like we see in Pujya Guruji Swami Tejomayananda ji) then I believe our progress will be much faster.

Basically, while attaining knowledge if we have bhakti then knowledge will stick better because our mind will remain single pointed and humble. While doing bhakti if we have Knowledge then devotion will be much deeper because we will have more conviction in our surrender. Of course, these are my opinions and I don't know much. Its fun to read your opinions..so please do write.
User avatar
Padmaja
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby meera » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:07 am

Hari Om.....

Pranaam!!!! We have become like a city of few people. We just change the street corners where we meet, but we all keep meeting anyway!

I include in random corner 'Thoughts'.


“So the senses are our teachers in some sense, apart from their being what people generally call deceivers” – from Sw. Krishnananda, Bhagvatha talks chapter 1

My thoughts: That we have an expectation from the senses and its objects is where we go wrong. To expect it to fulfil a certain desire fully...but that does not happen. The desire wakes up again...and then we blame the sense organ for being ineffective. Example: I buy a shirt today because it is the best in the world. Tomorrow I see another shirt and I say, oh God, why didn't I see this yesterday?! See... this one is so much better!

Who saw the shirt today? The eye or the Eye? When the 'eye' sees it, I think it sees 'want'...when the Eye sees it, it sees 'need'....
User avatar
meera
 
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:57 am

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby meera » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:30 pm

The soul brings its light from Heaven;

the mind acquires its knowledge from earth.

Therefore, when the soul believes readily, the mind may still doubt.


----- Hazrat Inayat Khan
User avatar
meera
 
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:57 am

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby murugans61 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:57 pm

Hari OM

My understanding of the above noble quote is as follows:

Knowledge is acquired from the external world. The Soul's light is Wisdom and it is based on removal of ignorance, where the power comes from Within.

pranams
User avatar
murugans61
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby meera » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:00 am

Hari Om.............

Sharp view on freewill versus destiny, by Gurudev


"Some of us blame the Creator for the sorrow or sin in our lives and despair by saying that the sorrows have been fated to us.
The Vedantins teach differently. It is important that we understand that is a rhythm in the universe, that the planets move regularly, that the stars ride their appointed paths and the natural laws never deviate from nature.
Everywhere we can discover the law of rhythm (rta) and everything conforms to that law.

Why then in the case of human life, do we say that there is no logic or reason in it?



I would change that question mark to an exclamation...!
User avatar
meera
 
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:57 am

Re: Satsang - random corner..

Postby murugans61 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:10 am

Hari OM

Everywhere we can discover the law of rhythm (rta) and everything conforms to that law.

Why then in the case of human life, do we say that there is no logic or reason in it?

It is due to delusion and ignorance about the Law of Karma. Isvara is the maker and he is the material. All the given things in the world are nothing but HIM, which are intelligently put to gether. All the laws are nothing but HIM. Every chaos has a theory behind it. Every happening has a background. While the present is due to the past, the future is very much dependant on the present. If one gets clarity about the Isvara and becomes more objective in life, the logic and reason of human life will become clearly evident.

Pranams
User avatar
murugans61
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:59 pm


Return to Vedanta and Spirituality

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users