Hiranyagarbha ?

Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby RoopaSatish » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:31 am

Hari Om.

When the Jiva is identified with his subtle body, it is called “Taijesa” – this Swamiji explained as “the effulgent one” and we understood this as a pointer to Consciousness (Atman) because the mind in subtle body reflects Consciousness. At the microcosm level, this concept is well understood by me.

But when we look at macrocosm, at the Samasthi level, he introduced the concept of “Hiranyagarbha”. What is this Golden Womb? Is there a thing called Universal Mind ? Is it just some conceptual framework to understand the world ?

We know how our mind-intellect operates at Individual level - how does this Hiranyagarbha operate ? How does that point to Consciousness (Brahman) ? I am not able to understand the concept clearly.

Will appreciate some help to better understand this.

Pranams and thanks

Roopa
User avatar
RoopaSatish
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:48 pm
Location: Mumbai

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby sunilgoel29 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:49 am

Hari Om & Pranaams!

From what I understand, the three gunas of Prakriti are perceivable in our day to day life. Since effect is inherent in the cause, it is inferred that Prakriti is endowed with these three gunas. The Rishis of yore did a lot of contemplation on this and came out with the theory of deliberate superimposition and negation to understand God.

In the end, there is only Brahman and nothing else. It is natural to assume a samashti for every vyasthi, otherwise the workings of Maya can never be explained. But we must always remember that it is all Maya and hence mithya. This logical theory is the one adopted in the shastras.

Ishwara is Brahman's instrument for manifestation. Hrnyagarbha, Virat and Isha, all exist within Ishwara. If there were no governing principle, there would be total chaos. On the other hand, we find that everything is in order. Order cannot happen by itself.

This is my understanding. I appreciate your bringing up this topic as the understanding of this topic will bring more depth to our knowledge.

Kind regards.

In Shri Guru Smriti

Sunil
sunilgoel29
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:09 pm
Location: Lagos, Nigeria

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby sunilgoel29 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:13 pm

Hari Om!

Hrnyagarbha is total mind whereas Pragna is individual mind. We learnt and observe that all orders of nature have individual as well as collective functions. This is the hierarchy. For Maya to operate, it needs Isha, and Isha comprises of Ishwara (collective pragnas), Hrnyagarbha ((collective minds) and Virat (collective vishwas). Pragna is total darkness, or total Avidya being reflected in the consciousness of an individual. The collective pragnas (Ishwara) is the total Avidya enveloping each and every jiva. (This part is a little difficult to digest........how can Ishwara comprise of Avidya?? I would appreciate a senior student's or one respected acharya's comments on this pls.) Similarly, collective sukshama shariras or collective minds become one mind of the Ishwara. Same goes for Vishwa and Virat.

This subject of vyasthi and samashti along with the effect of the three gunas on them needs to be studied thoroughly and I am sure subsequent classes will cover these. That may be a better time to discuss this subject. However, if senior students are willing to explain, it will be much appreciated.

Kind regards

In Shri Guru Smriti

Sunil
sunilgoel29
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:09 pm
Location: Lagos, Nigeria

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby sunilgoel29 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:05 pm

Hari Om!

Kindly read Taijasa as individual mind and not Pragna. This mistake was by oversight. Pragna is the individual karana sarira and its corresponding collective/Samasthik name is ishwara.

Kind regards

Sunil Goel
sunilgoel29
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:09 pm
Location: Lagos, Nigeria

Three state of Avidya and Pragya (Knowledge/ Intelligence)

Postby DrPSDeb » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:44 pm

Dear Sunilji,

I agree with your point and confusion. After long searching I found answer in Mandukya Upanishad of 12 verse answering these three state and explaining fourth sate. Following links was very useful.

Swami Sarvapriyananda at IITK - "Who Am I?" according to Mandukya Upanishad-Part 1,2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGKFTUuJppU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0dugc4TrlE

Thanks
DrPSDeb
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:10 pm

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby srammohan » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:49 am

Hari Om Roopa Ji

At the समष्टि or Macrocosm level the sequence is almost the same as what is at Individual level except there is a difference.

Easwara is Brahman identified with Maya (माया उपादि). This Easwara (who has already identified with Maya) when he identifies with Total Subtle Body he takes on the name Hiranyagarbha. Hiranyagarbha, when he identifies with Total Gross body is called Virat. The difference is that Easwara is aware that he is Brahman and this is only a role that he is performing in and through the Hiranyagarbha and Virat identifications too. At Individual level this awareness is not there as a Jiva and can be got only through scriptures and Guru upadesha.
srammohan
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:32 am

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby sunilgoel29 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:41 pm

Pranaams and Hari Om!

Thank you for the explanation. But total Avidya in a Jiva is called Pragna and total Maya in Ishwara is called Ishwara. Does the ishwara identify with total causal body just as it does with Hiranyagarbha and Virat? Ishwara identifying with Hiranyagarbha and Virat is understandable, but identifying with total karana sharira is a bit difficult to understand.

Kindly help.

In Shri Guru Smriti

Sunil Goel
sunilgoel29
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:09 pm
Location: Lagos, Nigeria

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby RoopaSatish » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:38 pm

Hari Om Sunilji,

Sharing my understanding regarding your question – “Does the ishwara identify with total causal body just as it does with Hiranyagarbha and Virat?”. Sorry for replaying so late - I havent been active on the discussion forums.

Providing a brief background :
1) Iswara : Consciousness when identified with Pure Sattva is called Iswara.
Iswara is all Knowledge (as Sattva is the Knowledge aspect of Prakruti).
Iswara identifies with all as he is the Creator – Iswara is All knowledge, Unlimited, Omnipresent and all Powerful
Iswara is also of the nature of Bliss.
Maya, is Iswara’s Upadhi - using whose creative powers Iswara creates the world of objects - but Iswara is ever aware of his true nature – so he is able to have control over Maya.

2)Jiva : Consciousness when identified with Malina Sattva is called Jiva. (Sattva mixed with Rajas and Tamas).
Jiva is controlled by Avidya / Ignorance (due to the presence of Rajas and Tamas aspect of Prakruti– the Tamas (the inert aspect) veils the true nature of Consciousness and the Rajas (the action aspect) projects the false – causing Ignorance).
This is why Jiva thinks of himself as limited, conditioned by space and time, and has a miserable existence.

3) Coming to Pragnya : Consciousness when identified with Jiva in the Deep Sleep state (Karana Sarira) is called Pragnya. ‘Total Pragnya’ at Samasti level can best be compared to ‘Maya’. Maya and Iswara are not the same. Iswara controls Maya.

4) So unlike the other 2 samasti concepts ie Hiranyagarbha is ‘Total Taijesa’ and Virat is ‘Total Viswa’, Iswara is not ‘Total Pragnya’ – infact Iswara is a complete opposite concept of Pragnya / Avidya.

This is my understanding. Pls correct me if I am wrong.

Pranams.
User avatar
RoopaSatish
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:48 pm
Location: Mumbai

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby RoopaSatish » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:56 pm

Hari Om,

Pls allow me to make a small correction to my earlier post above in point 4. I was wrong in saying that Iswara is not total Pragnya. Since Pragnya means knowledge / Consciousness at Vyashti level, Iswara is obviously "Total Pargnya" as Iswara is ALL KNOWLEDGE at Samasti level.

What I meant was Iswara is totally opposite of Avidya (nescience).

Hari Om.
User avatar
RoopaSatish
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:48 pm
Location: Mumbai

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby 81602S012 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:59 am

Hari Om a small diversion. Talking of samsthi vyasthi how do I connect my karma I am facing with samsthi level.
At vysthi level we reap for what we sow.
2. Total mind is still not clear for my understanding.
81602S012
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:24 pm

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby RoopaSatish » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:47 pm

Hari Om.

You raise an interesting question - in terms of our individual Karma impacting at samasti level. Have you heard of the belief that the Universe is interconnected - and that one singular action of ours may start a chain of reactions which have far reaching impact ? If this is indeed true, then the vyasti and samasti inter-linkage becomes evident. Every thought / action of ours impacts someone, who impacts someone / something else with his action etc etc. This is my simplistic understanding. Perhaps there is more to it.

I was also not very clear about Total Mind - have for now understood it as 'Universal Consciousness'. It is more evident in human beings and animals as mind and intellect is well developed, to a lesser extent in plants and even less evident to us in the inert matter around us.
User avatar
RoopaSatish
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:48 pm
Location: Mumbai

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby 81602S012 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:52 am

Thank you Roopaji.
I am still vague.
81602S012
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:24 pm

Re: Hiranyagarbha ?

Postby sunilgoel29 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:35 pm

Hari Om dear Sadhaks,

Seems everyone is having a long holiday in the summer! There has been no posting in the discussion forum for a long time.

I had a question of Prana, which I hope our learned group can throw light upon. Is Hiranyagarbha the originator of prana? When we say that all gross, subtle and causal bodies come out of hiranyagarbha, do we mean that all these bodies have inherent prana shakti in them? Is prana spirit or matter? Is it a third aspect of Prakriti?

When we breathe, which is the force that is making us inhale and exhale? Does prana always have air or can it exist in a vacuum also?

Is Prana as untrue as the jagat and the Prakriti? There is something called pranic healing and kundalini awakening. Are these untrue as well?

Will really appreciate a small discussion on this subject please as I don't think we have discussed it before anywhere.

Hari Om and love

Sunil Goel
sunilgoel29
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:09 pm
Location: Lagos, Nigeria


Return to Panchadasi

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron