Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds Chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.
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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby lakssg » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:52 pm

Verse 15 –in the previous verse lord had given the technique of how to cross over Maya .Now the question arises is it possible for everyone to reach lord or any specific effort or qualities are required on our part.
Lord now points out dushkrithinah- the sinners who are overpowered with tendencies which prevents them from reaching the supreme .
They are categorized into 4
- The deluded- total absence of the knowledge. No idea about the self
- The lowest of men- some amount of knowledge they have. But lack of interest prevents them.
- Those whose knowledge is covered by Maya-Due to lack of shraddha based thinking they live in ignorance.
- Demoniac in nature- have an impure mind full of anger, greed, pride etc which is an obstacle to know the self.
In general they don’t realize the value of human birth and never reach the supreme lord.
These in turn points out the qualities required for a sadhaka
Pure mind
Pure intellect
Interest in the knowledge
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby jayasri » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:28 pm

Hari Om,

Slokas 8- 12

Slokas 4-7 which are about Eshwara Jnanam. Knowing that Bhagavan is both the material and intelligent cause, when we look at the world, we should see only Eshwara. But our mind is filled with likes, dislikes and fear. It needs training and practice (jnanabhyasam) to remember that when we see the world, we see nothing but Eshwara. Bhagavan takes some examples we see and says that the splendor we see in these is Him only. In sloka 12,he says that all the things that are in this world with the sattva, rajasic and tamasic nature came from Him only. They came from me but I am not in them. They do not have the same order of reality. Example, myself and my shadow. The shadow came from me but I am not in the shadow.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:36 am

Hari Om,

Pranaams to all. Thank you everyone for posting and sharing your thoughts and reflections.

Now let us study Sloka 16. The Lord had spoken earlier that because of Maya the people are deluded. He said to cross Maya one has to surrender to Him. In Sloka 15 he talks about 4 categories of people who do not reach Him thereby pointing out the obstacles a sadhaka must remove.
In Sloka 16 now he talks of 4 kinds of people in different stages of evolution who reach Him, meaning the 4 categories of people who are in the path to Him.
Let us now study this Sloka.

Word and Sloka Meaning : Arvind
Thoughts and Concepts (16) : Sathyavathi ji
Reflections on this Sloka = everyone.

Pranaams,
Arvind
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:44 am

Sloka 16
चतुर्विधा भजन्ते मां जनाः सुकृतिनोऽर्जुन ।
आर्तो जिज्ञासुरर्थार्थी ज्ञानी च भरतर्षभ ॥


Sloka Meaning:
Four kinds of virtuous men worship Me, O Arjuna, the one in distress, the seeker of (systemized) knowledge, the seeker of wealth and the wise, O best among the Bharatas.

Word to Word Meaning
चतुर्विधा = (Of) Four kinds
जनाः = (are) men
भजन्ते मां = (who) worship Me
सुकृतिनोऽर्जुन = who are virtuous O Arjuna
आर्तो = the one dissatisfied
जिज्ञासु = the seeker of knowledge
र्थार्थी = the seeker of wealth
ज्ञानी च = and also the wise
भरतर्षभ = O best among the Bharatas
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby jayasri » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:38 am

Sloka 13

In this sloka Bhagavan says what causes the problem of samsara, bondage. He has said earlier
that everything in the world proceeds from Him ( apara prakriti) and it is upheld by his higher nature, para prakriti. That being the case, why do we feel incomplete, always wanting something? The reason, Bhagavan says is due to delusion. Due to the three gunas, We have lost our sense of discrimination and are deluded by the world and do not recognize the immutable reality beyond them.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:04 am

Sloka 16
चतुर्विधा भजन्ते मां जनाः सुकृतिनोऽर्जुन ।
आर्तो जिज्ञासुरर्थार्थी ज्ञानी च भरतर्षभ ॥


There are four types of virtuous men(devotees) who worship God and seek refuge in them. In the preceding verses the Lord talked about those people who do not reach Him, because of Maya that envelops them in various ways. Here he talks about those who are in the path to reach Him.
They are -
(1) artharthi = The seeker of wealth.
Here the Lord is talking about those devotees who want wealth , but only from God. They worship God to get wealth. Their conviction is besides God none else can quench their desire for wealth. Holding this view they recite and chant the Lord's name and worship Him.
One who resorts to worldly means for fulfilling his desire for wealth, but sometimes invokes God for it, is not a devotee to God, he is a devotee of money. But devotees of God seek wealth only from Him. Such a devotee gradually develop inclination for God, and subsequently their desire for wealth diminishes and finally it disappears.
Here by word wealth we must include not just physical wealth but things like "worlds", " kingdoms", "power", "position" and so on.
An example of artharthi in our Scriptures is Dhruva. He meditated on the Lord and finally the Lord bestowed a world for Him as he asked for it. Of course he later repented it, though he started as a artharthi .

(2) Artha = The distressed.
This devotee when in distress prays to God and God alone. They pray to Him to do away with the miseries and misfortunes. Such a distressed devotee was Uttara, because she did not seek refuge from anyone but the Lord. Yet another example is Gajendra the elephant.
There is another dimension of looking at artha. Artha also means distress arising because of separation from God. He or She is in distress like Mira Bhai. If we take this meaning, this type of devotee will come in top.

(3) जिज्ञासु = The seeker of knowledge.
These are the devotees who want to know the nature of God and thereby have exclusive devotion to Him alone. An example of this is Uddhava, to whom the Lord imparted the divine knowledge called "Uddhava Gita".

(4) ज्ञानी = Men of wisdom.
The ज्ञानी is qualified with the word च by the Lord to indicate his superiority with other devotees, which the Lord himself will say in the next Sloka. Devotees who neither have a desire for favorable circumstances, nor are worried about unfavourable ones, nor do they have a desire to know the Self, for they are the Self. They perceive everything as God's lila or sport. Sukhadev Maharaj and the Gopis of Vrindavan are such examples.

Generally one starts as an artha. A person may pray when he is in distress. Then as his faith increases he becomes an artharthi. When his faith further cements he wants to know more about the source of power and about the glory of God. Then he comes a जिज्ञासु. An artha can directly also become a जिज्ञासु, when there is intense desire to know God. Dhruva was first an artharthi, but he then repented and become a जिज्ञासु later.

Now when it is said an artharthi or artha becomes a जिज्ञासु we must not understand it that because God gave him wealth or removed his suffering therefore he became a जिज्ञासु. For God always may not give, but these devotees know that God gives only what is needed and what we deserve. We ask God pressured by our vasanas. But God knows what is best for us and he gives, so they pray to God with this attitude. Therefore they are able to move forward in the spiritual path though they may be initially seekers of wealth or asking to remove distress.

Food for thought : Why does the Lord say that even a seeker of wealth as well as one who is in distress who calls for Him as सुकृत (sukRta)- meaning a well adorned, virtuous devotee?
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:14 am

Hari OM

Among those sukrtins who recognize and worship Isvara, there are four types. All of them have sufficient recognition of Isvara to be devotees but among them there is gradation. The degree of recognition, their attitude, approach, prayers etc determine the four types as artah, artharthi, jignasu and Jnanai.

The arta and artarthis are karmis because their karmas are kamya karmas. The jignasu, however, is a karma yogi; so his is a different type of devotion. He has viveka, discrimination. He does his nitya-naimittika karmas and prayers to gain a clear mind and the knowledge of Isvara. Jnani’s recognition of Isvara is complete and his identification is total. Jnani’s devotion is sadhya bhakti as he understands and recognizes the truth of Isvara as Atma, whereas the bhakthi of others is sadhana bhakthi, a devotion to Isvara as a means.

Jnani is distinguished among the bhakthas as fulfilled bhaktha. The jignasu is going to be fulfilled and even the other two will be fulfilled in course of time. Eventually they will come to Isvara. The arta, the devotee in distress, will become an artharthi and then a jignasu, because he has devotion. His recognition of Isvara paves the way for his progress.

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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:44 am

HARI OM

THOUGHTS AND CONCEPTS

9-Define Arta,jijnasu,Arharthin,and jnanin.

Arta,Jijnasu,Artharthin and jnanin are four categories of devotees enumerated by the Lord.

Arta:men who was dissatisfied with even the best in life approach the lord to fight against and gain total relief from the spiritual distress that threatens them from with in.They are called arta.

jijnasu: These are seekers of knowledge and understanding who,from a mere idle curiosity to study and know lord's nature, ever invoke his grace.

Artharthi: Almost all men, through out their lifetime,spend themselves irresistably in some field of activity or the other,under the whip of their desires .Fulfilment of desires is their urge under which every member of the living kingdom acts restlessly,all through his lifetime.Those who turn to the lord for the fulfilment of their desires are called Artharti.

Jnani:A rare few approach to the sanctum sanctorum of the temple of the spirit,demanding nothing,carrying with them only themselves aS THEIR OFFERINGS. They are the jnanis.They offer themselves as an oblation in a pure spirit of love -inspiried total surrender.The only cry in their heart is that the Lord should end their sense of seperation and accept them back in to the embrace,to be made one with him.(7.16).
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:04 am

HARI OM
VERSE-16
In this verse sukrtinah qualifies all the four catagories of devotees who adore lord with faith .Lord says that whatever may be the motive of their worship they all are invariably virtuous.The four types of devotees are Arta,Artharti,jinjnasu and jnani.

Arta:A devotee who practises worship of God with faith and devotion for the alleviation of physical and mental agony;or with a view to securing relief from adversity,fear of enemies,ailment, ignominy,or for the fear of being attacked by thieves,getting unnerved by such fear.Draupadi calling Krishna for help is cited as an example of this type of devotee.

Artharti:A devotee of this type is he who cherishes in his heart the craVING FOR One or more enjoyments of this world such as the possession of wife, wealth, progeny,honour, fame and heavenly bliss.He depends on God for the satisfaction of his desire and practises adoration with reverence and faith for such satisfaction.Devotees like sugriva and Vibhisana are cited as examples.Dhruva is cited as foremost amoung them.

JINJNASU: A devotee who practises devotion to the Lord with the sole motive of knowing god in reality, caring not for wealth, woman, progeny,house and other objects of enjoyments.Devotees like Udhava and Pariksit belongs to this category.

Jnani: A devotee who has realized God, in whose eyes God alone remains as the abiding reality.There is nothing else other than god for him .His desires are ceased as a result of God realisation. He therefore worships God under the natural impulse of his heart.Prahlada was recognised a devotee of this type.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Payyubg » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:54 am

Verse 16:

Four categories of people serve The Lord and they .are righteous and meritorious in their outlook.
1.Those who are suffering and are threatened by external factors. They seek The Lord at these times of distress.
2.Those who seek the truth or seek knowledge of The Lord . They do not seek anything else.

3. Those who seek wealth . Seeks The Lord for worldly benefits.
4.The knower ,however ,is one who has experienced the truth about the lord. He has nothing else his mind but The Lord.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby nikhil1707 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:10 pm

Four kinds of virtuous men worship Me,
O Arjuna,—the distressed, the seeker of knowledge,
the seeker of wealth, and the wise man, O lord of
the Bharatas.
The distressed : he who is in distress, overpowered by a
robber, a tiger, illness or the like. Knowledge : of the real
nature of the Lord. The wise man : he who knows the real
nature of Vishnu

In this context Swami Ramsukhdas ji gives an interesting story to drive home this point.

Four boys were playing.Just then, their father, came with four mangoes.At the sight of the mangoes, one of the sons,
asked for a mango, the second cried for a mango. Both of them were given a mango each.The third one only looked at the mangoes
and the fourth one went on playing without even having a look at the mangoes.
The father gave one mango to each of the other two boys also.
Here the boy who was asked for a mango is a seeker of wealth.The one who wept is distressed. The one who looked at the mango
is a seeker of knowledge and the fourth one, is a man of wisdom.

The seeker of wealth seeks to do away with suffering, the seeker of knowledge, wants to know God while the wise (devout devotee), seeks nothing.
All the above mentioned men,are virtuous, because they depend on God predominantly.So they are different from men,who have fallen from Yoga.
Though they may initially ask for wealth and so on, because they only depend on God they ultimately develop full devotion and move forward.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby SUBU66 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:04 am

Among Kamya Karmas,
Four types are there:
1. One who with full devotion to GOD get minimum requirements of wealth for his sustenance - to maintain this Body Ratha to move forward in spiritual path.
2. Having attained the above, he indulges in acquiring/demanding from GOD for more comfort e.g. two mobile, two tv, air conditioner and goes on
3. This category demand from GOD through Bakthi and devotion, more wealth to acquire fame and to become richest man in the world etc
4. This category having acquired wealth from GOD, he sacrifices everything for the cause of evolution and welfare of the GOD's Cosmic world and revel in that.

GOD showers his favour to all without any distinction. But because the second and third category people's demands are desires are oriented for self gratification, they exhaust their punya karma and amass papa karma.
Whereas 1st and 4th category people progress well in their spiritual path and attain /realilse the SELF

SUBU66 - AVA SUBRAMANIAM
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby lakssg » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:17 am

After dushkrithina Lord now describes types of devotees in verse 16 – sukrithina- category who have punya to their credit which guides them in the right direction- towards Lord.
They fall into 2 categories - Sakami - Presence of desire
Nishkami- Absence of desire

Sakami- 3 types
1.Aartha- One who is in distress. Desire to get out of the difficult situation . Person who is drowned in problems which cannot be solved with wealth, power etc .With full conviction he turns to lord in an attitude of total surrender to get rid of the problem. Draupadi is an example of this .
2.Jijnasu- Desire for knowledge.to know the real nature of the self. They turn to god to be blessed with a quiet mind where by they can reach the lotus feet of guru and learn shastras. Example is Janaka
3.Artharthi- On who is desirous of wealth, power,position of this world or desire for higher worlds . He will not resort to any other means But he turns only to lord to fulfill all desires. Dhruva is an example for this category
Aartha and artharthi even though they have desires for the world gradually by Lords grace evolve and become jijnasu .

Nishkami-
1.jnani - They have no desire for anything. They are superior to all. They are contended , not worried about anything unfavourable or excited about things favorable. They abide in the self .So there is no question of desire for Self Knowledge also in them.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:26 pm

Hari Om,

Pranaams to all and thank you everyone for your thoughts and reflections on Sloka 16.

Now let us go ahead and study Sloka 17,18 and 19 together.

Sloka and word Meaning : Arvind
HGRR
Thoughts and Concepts (10,11,12) - Sathyavathi ji
Selections For Reflection (2,3) - Muruganji

Individual thoughts reflections on these Slokas = Everyone.

Pranaams
Arvind
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:27 pm

Sloka 17
तेषां ज्ञानी नित्ययुक्त एकभक्तिर्विशिष्यते ।
प्रियो हि ज्ञानिनोऽत्यर्थमहं स च मम प्रियः


Word to Word Meaning
तेषां = Of them
ज्ञानी = the wise
नित्ययुक्त = ever steadfast
एकभक्ति = (whose) devotion is single pointed
र्विशिष्यते = excels
हि = certainly
प्रियो ज्ञानिनोऽत्यर्थमहं = I exceedingly dear of the wise
स च = and He (the wise)
मम प्रियः = is dear to Me

Sloka Meaning
Of then the wise, ever steadfast and devoted to the One excels, for, I am exceedingly dear to the wise, and he is dear to Me.

Sloka 18
उदाराः सर्व एवैते ज्ञानी त्वात्मैव मे मतम्‌ ।
आस्थितः स हि युक्तात्मा मामेवानुत्तमां गतिम्‌ ॥


Word to Word Meaning
उदाराः = Noble
सर्व = (are) all
एवैते = these indeed
ज्ञानी = (but) the wise
त्वात्मैव = I deem as my own Self
मे मतम्‌ = this is my opinion
आस्थितः =(for) established
स हि = verily he is
युक्तात्मा = steadfast
मामेवानुत्तमां = as Me as the Supreme
गतिम्‌ = goal

Sloka Meaning:
Noble indeed are all these; but the wise man I deem as My very Self; for steadfast in mind he is established in Me alone as the Supreme goal

Sloka 19
बहूनां जन्मनामन्ते ज्ञानवान्मां प्रपद्यते ।
वासुदेवः सर्वमिति स महात्मा सुदुर्लभः ॥


Word to Word Meaning
बहूनां = Of many
जन्मनामन्ते = end of births
ज्ञानवान्मां = the wise man
प्रपद्यते = approaches Me
वासुदेवः = (realizing) that Vasudeva
सर्वमिति = is all this
स महात्मा = such a Mahatma
सुदुर्लभः = is very hard to find

Sloka Meaning:
At the end of many births the wise man comes to Me, realizing that Vasudeva is all this , such a great soul is very hard to find.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Payyubg » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:37 pm

Verse 17:

Bhagavan says of the 4 kinds of noble people, the 'knower' is dear to him.
Why?
Because the knower is always and exclusively devoted and integrated with Bhagavan.
Bhagavan and the knower are one and the same.
So naturally Bhagavan deems the knower to be his dearest .

Verse 18:

The Lord says , that the other three types of people are also dear to him. In other words all His devotees are dear to him. But the knower who has grasped the supreme knowledge ,is not different from Bhagavan himself. There is no distinction between the knower and The Lord.
Hence He proclaims the knower to be his favorite .

Verse 19:

Further more Bhagavan says that the knower is a magnanimous soul, is very rare to come across. Such a person , who has realised the ultimate truth that pure consciousness is Vasudeva, and He is everything , reaches The Lord directly after several births.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:20 pm

Hari OM

Selections for reflection
2 Self surrender is the tune in which the song of love is truly sung. selflessness is the key in which the duet of love is played.(7.17)

3 Love, with no strings attached to it, can not only order its own fulfilment, but can also convert even the base into the noble by its silent persuasions and mysterious charms. If we can give the required dose of pure and sincere love, unmotivated by any desire or selfishness, it is a law that even the bitterest enemies, with their hearts full of hatred , can be forced to reflect nothing but love towards us. ( 7.17)

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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby jayasri » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:32 am

Sloka 14
Bhagavan talks about the nature of maya and the only way to cross it.. The sense of discrimination is lost due to Maya. Maya is formed of three gunas, dependent on the Lord and very difficult to cross over. Krishna did not say it is not possible to cross, only that it is very difficult and also says the way to cross it is only through complete surrender to him.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby madan » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:52 pm

The persons of virtuous deeds adore God: the afflicted, the seeker of Knowledge, the seeker of the wealth and the man of Knowledge.
In verse 15, God says Duskritinah do not take refuge in Him, where as in verse 16 He says Sukritinah do take refuge in HIm.Though the afflicted one and seekers of wealth have desires,they wish to fulfill those desires by taking refuge unto God. That is why they have been called as Sukritinah by God.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

HARI OM

THOUGHTS AND CONCEPTS

10- Of these four type of devotees-Arta,Jijnasu,Artharthi and jnani-Which is the highest?

The Jnani(wise) is the highest type of devotee.This is made clear in the following verse:

Tesam jnani nityayukta ekabhaktirvisisyate
Priyohi jnanino tyarthamaham sa ca mamapriyah.

Of them the jnani (wise),ever steadfast and devoted to the one excels; for I am exceedingly dear to the jnani as he is dear to me.(7.17)

11- What is ekabhakti?

The unbroken and all out aspiration of the seeker to reach his own real nature, the self is called the ekabhakti(single-pointed-devotion). This is possible only when one withdraws oneself totally from all other extrovert demands of the lower nature.
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