Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:29 pm

Thoughts and concepts

12-The Lord declares that he regards the jnani as his own self . Explain

A man of knowledge (jnani)is one who,courting truth in a spirit of total identification with it, successfully attains the total transcendence of his individual mind and intellect,where by his ego rediscovers itself to be nothing other than the self. He becomes one with it. such a jnani, thereafter,ever remains identified with the self.Hence the lord declares that the jnani is his very self. (7.18)
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby jayasri » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:29 am

Sloka 15
Bhagavan talks about four categories of people who do not worship him.
Dushkridha Mudaha –- Deluded people, cannot discriminate between sat and asat,
have done sinful acts and these acts have robbed them of the ability to discriminate.
Naradhama – Inferior people meaning people with inferior qualities like selfishness, cheating etc
Mayayapahrtajnanah - People who lose their knowledge by their own wrong reasoning ( due to Maya)
Asuram bhavam aashrita- Men with demonic disposition. They harass others and lie.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:40 am

Sloka 17
तेषां ज्ञानी नित्ययुक्त एकभक्तिर्विशिष्यते ।
प्रियो हि ज्ञानिनोऽत्यर्थमहं स च मम प्रियः


Among all these men, the man of wisdom ever steadfast and exclusively devoted to Me is foremost for I am extremely dear to the wise and he is dear to Me.
Why is the jnani (man of wisdom) the highest ? He excels all because of the special quality that
(a) नित्ययुक्त =
The ever abiding nature only belongs to the jnani. The other virtuous devotees explained by the Lord (arthathi and so on) remember God but they also hold affinity to the world. So their love is divided. They give reality to the world also. When problem is there they remember God, but later forget him. Even for a jijnasu, his mind may also go to objects, he is not always to God. But the jnani abides only in God. Hence he excels.
(b) एकभक्ति =
His love is single pointed, not shared. The artha, arthathi makes God an instrument. The jijnasu love also shared, he shares his love with knowledge as well as God, he loves his sadhana more than God at times. But एकभक्ति for a jnani is only towards God. The love of others is divided (even among the devotees the Lord called as virtuous in the earlier Sloka).
(c) प्रियो हि ज्ञानिनोऽत्यर्थमहं स च मम प्रियः To the jnani the Lord is exceedingly dear, and to the Lord the jnani is exceedingly dear:
Paramatma is his (the jnani's) own Self, so he loves Paramatma as his own Self. If the jnani says he loves God the most it means that God is the Self of the jnani. If God says he loves the jnani the most it means the jnani has become the Lord's Self. This is "tat tvam asi" the Upanishad declaration of oneness pointed out here. So love is not merely of a personality like Krishna etc. Love is "parama svaroopa" supreme Love. This is what Narada Bhakti Sutra says in second Sutra "Saa tvasmin parama prema rupa" - "But, that bhakti, which is of the form of Supreme (limitless) love is in this”.
Supreme love is not conditioned by time, space or object.
As Hanumanji also says in Rama Charita Manasa , there are three levels of love
(a At first level is the notion "I am His". God is separate from me. I am his eternal servant, God is controller and Master.
(b) The second level is "I am Yours"
(c) The final culmination is "I am He" - there is no distance, gap between me and God. Only God remains. Therefore the Lord says this category is the best not because he is partial, but this is the truth.

Sloka 18
उदाराः सर्व एवैते ज्ञानी त्वात्मैव मे मतम्‌ ।
आस्थितः स हि युक्तात्मा मामेवानुत्तमां गतिम्‌ ॥


All of them are wonderful (because without punya they cannot come to Me). They are all great because they love me in some way or the other, just as all children are dear to the mother.
But why is jnani special ? For the jnani is Lord's own Self, all distinctions have ceased. The atma of Brahman is the jnani. And the Lord says I feel like that, when I see the jnani thats how I feel, I am seeing myself. For आस्थितः स हि युक्तात्मा , he has become totally united with Me, no difference is there and everybody loves themselves, their own Self.
Finally मामेवानुत्तमां गतिम्‌ , the jnani is ever firm in Me as the unparalleled goal, with undivided love only towards Me.

The gist of the discussion is this- all devotees are dear to the Lord no doubt, but the jnani is the dearest, for what to do he has become the Lord's Self, and everyone loves themselves the most.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby lakssg » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:09 am

VERSE 17,18,19

The Lord now points out the uniqueness of jnani whereby he is dearest to Lord. One may wonder why the Lord who is indweller in all should be loving to all without any partiality , compares jnani with other bhakthas . This is only to inspire all to progress steadily in the path and reach the ultimate goal like the jnani. Jnana is the absolute bhakthi.
Lord now explains why jnani is dear to him.He is
1.nitya yuktha- never loses focus. Ever abiding in lord
2. eka bhakthi-single pointed. World has no meaning as far as he is concerned .he does not want anything from lord.he is never detached from lord
3. jnani loves lord – beyond any quantifications.
4.lord loves him most - he is the self. self is dearest to all
5.jnani is rare- after so many janmas of devotion / sadana one becomes a jnani
6. vision of jnani- vasudeva sarvamiti -lord alone is . Everything is Vasudeva,I am also merged in Vasudeva.

What about the others
In contrast – aarta, artharthi, jijnasu have some imperfections
1. Due to desire world comes between Lord and the bhaktha
2. They are not always available.
3. Not single pointed
But still they are virtuous because they do not go to some other deities to fulfill their desires and they turn only to the Lord.
The Lord wants everyone to progress and become one with him.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:01 pm

Hari OM

Thank you all for your wonderful and clear reflctions.

As pointed out by you, In these verses, Lord talks about the superiority of the wise devotee. His devotion is permanent and undivided. he loves the Lord as himself because he does not have the dualistic notion. Naturally, the Lord also loves the devotee as Himself. Then the Lord promises the highest goal for the wise man of non dualistic vision, because fullness is possible only in non-duality.

Such a vision is achieved by preparing oneself through many births and rare are those blessed ones.

Pranams
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby jayasri » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:24 am

Sloka 16

Bhagavan tslks about four categories of devotees.

Artha – Distressed and they approach God to be rid of their misery.
Artharthi- Those that desire wealth, fame etc. They remember God in distress
as well as when happy and pray for more wealth. This desire for worldly things slowly
gets transformed by God’s grace to a thirst for knowledge.
Jignasu- One whose only goal is to realize God.
Jnani – The realized person.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:48 am

Hari Om,

Pranaams to all and my best regards to everyone on the auspicious day of Gita Jayanti today.
Now here are the thoughts on Sloka 19

Sloka 19
बहूनां जन्मनामन्ते ज्ञानवान्मां प्रपद्यते ।
वासुदेवः सर्वमिति स महात्मा सुदुर्लभः ॥


बहूनां जन्मनामन्ते
The word जन्मनाम is in plural, meaning at the end of many births. The Lord further qualifies it बहूनां which again means "many". What does it mean?
(1) Firstly liberation is possible only in human birth., so the Lord says this last human birth- or this human birth is the last of all births.The Lord has given a human being full freedom to be free from the cycle of samsara, or devolve into lower yonis. Freedom is available only in human birth. The human birth is not meant to enjoy pleasures of world.
(2) Also by the world बहूनां and जन्मनाम what the Lord wants to say is lot of preparation goes to prepare the mind for this knowledge.
(3) Also we can take that The Lord calls this "human life" as the very first and the very last of all births. It is the first, because all unintelligent action performed during this human life can lead to him lower births and transmigration. The seed of transmigration is the human birth, for punya and papa can be generated only here. But at the same time, the seed to end transmigration is also human birth, as liberation is possible only here. Therefore human birth because the "first" and the "last", as it leads both to transmigration as well as its end,

ज्ञानवान्मां प्रपद्यते
A wise man, a Yogi, surrenders to the knowledge of the Self. Surrendering to knowledge with the end of the individual ego is true surrender. The surrender of a man of wisdom, is different from the surrender of other kind of devotees which the Lord called as "virtuous". Why ? The Lord himself qualifies what is the vision of the man of wisdom who surrenders to the Lord.
prapatti here therefore is the dissolution of the world and seeing only God. The complete surrender is not just surrender of individual to God and maintaining one's individuality. Final surrender is dissolution of identity and only God remains.

वासुदेवः सर्वमिति
That all this is Vasudeva, everything is God.
Divinity can be understood in two ways and is followed in two ways by different types of seekers
(1) The world has no existence, only God exists
(2) All is God, this world is the manifestation of God.
One is a vision of a jnani, the other is vision of jnana bhakta. Both mean one and the same. In both cases the individuality is dissolved and only God remains, वासुदेवः सर्वमिति, everything is Vasudeva.
Here "Vasudeva" should not be taken as merely Lord Krishna. From the absolute standpoint Vasudeva stands for Consciousness. The word Vasudeva is a combination of compounds "Vas" and "deva" . Vasudeva comes from "vas" dhatoo (a root verb in Sanskrit) meaning "that in which everything exists". The word "deva" means bright, which is Consciousness. Hence the word Vasudeva means Consciousness on which this entire world rests. Or one who has understood that Consciousness which is the substratum and is of nature of effulgence as one's own Self. This is the vision of the jnani that Bhagavan is talking about.

स महात्मा सुदुर्लभः
The Lord says a person endowed with such a vision is called a Mahatma. Mahatma means one who has a large heart and has embraced the whole world. And that is possible only when one has transcended the boundaries of country, caste, religion, gender and so on. And that is possible only when one is rooted in Vasudeva- not as a personality merely, but as pure Consciousness which alone is beyond time, space and object.
And that being the case. such a Mahatma is सुदुर्लभः it is extremely rare to find one soul like that. That one who is following the spiritual path itself is rare, the Lord has earlier indicated. Therefore one having this vision of oneness is even extremely rare.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:54 am

HARI OM

VERSE-17

Lord declares that out of the four type of devotees Jnani the wise is the best.The jnani who has a steadfast mind,surrenders himself to the self,with an integrated heart of total devotion, having lost all consciousness of the world cherishes motiveless and concentrated love for God alone.This unbroken and all out aspiration of the seeker to reach his own real nature,the self,is called single pointed devotion or ekantabhakti.This could be possible only when one withdraws oneself totally from all other extrovert demands of the lower nature in him.For a wise man God is supremely dear to him.Lord declares that a wise man is dear to him.

Love demands giving without expecting any return at all times,in all circumstances.One sided love never culminates in any consumation. It is the eternal Law that love,with no strings attached to it,can not only order its own fulfillment, but can also convert even the base in to the noble by its silent persuasions and misterious charms.It can be an observable fact that if a mind is powerfully charged with a certain emotion be it sorrow, hatred,jealousy,love or
kindness -it can bring about sympathetic vibrations of similar emotions in the chambers of hearts that come near it.

Verse -18

Amoung the four type of devotees the man of wishdom being the best,the other three,Arta,Artharti,and jinjnasu too are devoted to God and possess supreme
faith in him .They seek their fullfillment from God and God alone.They are also God's devotees,howsoever they worship him and in the end they come to him alone.

Even though all the four types of devotees are good and dear to God,the man of wisdom excels them all.He calls jnani his own self,Lord shows that there is no difference between man of wishdom and God. There is absolute identity between the two.Such a devotee ever remains constantly and unshakably fixed in God,regarding him alone as the supreme and ultimate goal and the supreme refuge.

VERSE-19

The very birth in which a man attains the rank of an enlighted devotee is the last of his many rounds of births.For having realized God in this way one is never born aqgain. After many successive births, in the end attains the rank of jnani.God realized souls are very rare in this world.

If anyone comes in contact with such a soul,he should be regarded as extremely fortunate and he regards the whole creation is a manifestation of god and there is nothing apart from God.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby madan » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:08 pm

Hari Om,

Verse 17
The Lord says, among the four classes of devotees, jnani, the man of Knowledge, who is possessed of Knowledge, who is free of desires, surpasses all , that is he is superior to all; since he is ever united in Me,who is non-different from indwelling Self, hence indeed, he loves Me alone; he has no other object of attachment.
Since I, the supreme Self, am very much dear to him, therefore, he too is dear to Me.

Verse-18
The Lord says all the four are excellent because they all are virtuous, which has been earned in previous lives. But the Jnani excells as he is My atma, Self. There are many devotees who adore lesser deities but Jnani prefers Me. Therefore, he is indeed dear to Me. There is no impartiality in this because I reciprocate his sentiments.This is how it happens naturally. As Jnani is My Self he is not different from Me, but is surely what I am.This is My firm conclusion. The word "tu", is to show distinction between Jnani and other devotees because latter have desires and perceive differences which Jnani does not, for ,he, Jnani,with a steadfast mind,with his mind constantly absorbed in Me,has accepted only Me, the Lord , The infinite, The Self; as the super excellent Goal.

Verse 19
The Lord says, at the end of many births, in the final birth in which all virtues ripen,he constantly adores Me by having Knowledge that Vasudev is all. He , therefore, is a Mahatma.He is the best among all. He is rare. Prapatti means final surrender; dissolution of individual and merger with final. Then he becomes Mahatma- big soul.

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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby nikhil1707 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:44 am

Sloka 17,18,19

Of them the wise man, ever steadfast and
devoted to the One, excels for, excessively dear
am I to the wise, and he is dear to Me.
Of the four, the wise man, as knowing the truth, is ever
steadfast, and devoted to the One, finding no other object of
worship. Thus, he who is devoted to the One is superior
to all others. Since I am his very Self, I am excessively
dear to the wise man.—It is well-known to all in this world
that the Self is dear to every one. Therefore Vasudeva, as
the Self of the wise man, is dear to him.—And the wise man
Then the three others, the distressed and the rest, are not
dear to Vasudeva
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:00 am

Hari Om,

Thank you everyone for your wonderful reflection on these verses.

Let us pause and see very briefly what we have studied till now.

This Chapter begins with the promise of the Lord that he is going to talk about jnana as well as vijnana. The Lord praised the knowledge and gave us the importance of this wisdom. The Lord talked about para and apara Prakriti, and the nature of Advaita darshana. All these constitute the jnana portion. He then talked about vijnana through his manifestations, and how through these manifestations one can perceive God.

He then talked about Nature of Maya, and the people who do not cross him. He also spoke about the virtuous people who reach Him, and why the jnani is the best.

The Lord now explains two important things
(a) Why the artha and arthathi are also put in the noble category
(b) Why the others who do not seek Him are not noble.

Having laid the context and thought flow now let us see these Slokas 20-23 = Why the duskrata people do not seek the Lord and why the artha and arthathi are noble in comparison.

Word and Sloka Meaning - Arvind
HGRR
Selection for Reflection (4,5) - Muruganji

Reflections and thoughts on these Slokas - Everyone

Pranaams
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:23 pm

Sloka 20
कामैस्तैस्तैर्हृतज्ञानाः प्रपद्यन्तेऽन्यदेवताः ।
तं तं नियममास्थाय प्रकृत्या नियताः स्वया ॥


Word to Word Meaning
कामै = By desires
स्तैस्तै = By this or that
र्हृतज्ञानाः = those whose wisdom has been looted away
प्रपद्यन्ते = (they) approach
ऽन्यदेवताः = other Gods
तं तं = this or that
नियममास्थाय = Having followed the rites
प्रकृत्या = by Nature
नियताः = lead
स्वया = of their own

Full Sloka Meaning
Those whose wisdom has been looted away by this or that desire, go to the other Gods, following this or that rite, led by their own nature.

Sloka 21
यो यो यां यां तनुं भक्तः श्रद्धयार्चितुमिच्छति ।
तस्य तस्याचलां श्रद्धां तामेव विदधाम्यहम्‌ ॥


यो यो = Whoever
यां यां = whichever
तनुं = form
भक्तः = (the) devotee
श्रद्धया = with faith
र्चितुमिच्छति = desires to worship
तस्य = of him
श्रद्धां = faith
तामेव = that surely
विदधाम्यहम्‌ = I make
तस्याचलां = firm and unflinching

Full Sloka Meaning
Whatsoever form a devotee desires to worship with faith- that (same) faith of his I make it (firm) and unflinching.

Sloka 22
स तया श्रद्धया युक्तस्तस्याराधनमीहते ।
लभते च ततः कामान्मयैव विहितान्हि तान्‌ ॥


Word to Word Meaning
= He
तया = with that
श्रद्धया = (with) faith
युक्त = endued
स्तस्याराधनमीहते = of it he engages and worships (of that Devata)
लभते = (and) obtains
च ततः = and from that
कामान्मयैव = desires by Me surely
विहितान्हि = ordained
तान्‌ = verily

Full Sloka Meaning
Endued with that faith, he engages in the worship of that (Devata) and from it he obtains his desire : all these being ordained , indeed , by Me (alone).

Sloka 23
अन्तवत्तु फलं तेषां तद्भवत्यल्पमेधसाम्‌ ।
देवान्देवयजो यान्ति मद्भक्ता यान्ति मामपि ॥


Word to Word Meaning
अन्तवत्तु = Verily finite
फलं = (is the) fruit
तेषां = (that accrues) to them
तद्भवत्यल्पमेधसाम्‌ = that is (those men) of small intelligence
देवान्देवयजो = to the Devatas go those who worship the Devatas
यान्ति मद्भक्ता = (but) My devotees
यान्ति मामपि = come to Me

Full Sloka Meaning
Verily the fruit that accrues to those men of little intelligence is finite. The worshiper of the Devas go to the Devas, but My devotees come to Me.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Hari Om,

We have created a Student Queries Forum under Advanced Vedanta Course (under Home Study Course).

This Section will have a bank of questions and answers that students have asked in offline mode for the home study Advanced Vedanta courses.
(through emails and other modes of communication).

The Questions of the students and the answers given by our Acharyas will be posted on periodic basis.

Members of this forum can view and enrich their knowledge.

There will be a additional Student Query Forum under Bhagavad Gita Home Study Section as well which will be created soon, for Q&A related to the Bhagavad Gita Home Study Course. I will inform all members when it goes online.

Pranaams
Arvind
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby jayasri » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:45 am

Sloka 17

In Sloka 16, Bhagavan has described the four categories of devotees, in other words, four levels of devotion. In this Sloka, he says that among them Jnani is superior. Artha and artharthi devotees use the Lord as a means to an end. Their love is divided. For the जिज्ञासु also, his goal is God and he has realized that eshwara prapthi is the same as eshwara jnanam and tries to get the knowledge. Duality is still there. The Jnani, however, has realized that he is not separate from God and there is no duality.

Everyone loves themselves the most. If love towards God must be the highest, it is possible only under one condition. When I and God become identical, self love becomes love for God. For a jnani, God and self have become one. So for the jnani, God is dearest. Bhagavan says that he also holds the jnani dearest to him.

Sloka 18
Bhagavan says that the other types of devotees are also good people. They are in the right path.
But he says that the jnani is his very Self.

Sloka 19
Bhagavan said that a jnani is very dearest to him. It is very rare to see a jnani. At the end of many births, jnani attains the vision, ‘ Vasudeva is all’. Bhagavan calls him a Mahatma.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:17 pm

Hari OM
Selections for Reflection

4 Sri Krishna declares the sacred truth that in all Churches, Mosques, and Temples, in public places, or in private institutions, in the open, or on the sly, in the quiet huts, and in the silent caves- wherever and in whatsoever form, any devotee seeks to worship, "his faith do I make unwavering". A faithful follower of the Gita can never be contaminated by sectarianism or intolerance. At the foot of every altar, it is Sri Krishna, the Self, that constantly supplies more and more faith to water the expanding fields of devotion in sincere devotees.(7.21)

5 Seekers of happiness in the world of sense objects, as a result of their strife and struggle, gain their insignificant success in the field of sense enjoyments. If the same effort is applied by them in the right life of constructive living, they can come to discover their identity with the Eternal Absolute , the Self ( 7.23).

Pranams
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:54 am

Sloka 20

Because of own's own desires and vasanas/ innate tendencies (samskara developed through many births), one approaches the devatas and not the supreme Lord. Brahman pervades all the devatas, they are only his manifestations. But the ignorant, because of their desires and tendencies consider the manifestation to be Supreme. So they go to these limited devatas and not to the Supreme Consciousness which alone empowers all of these.
Here devata can mean

(a) Phenomenal forces of nature like rain, cloud, fire
(b) Other Gods like Indra and so on
(c) Subjectively seen Devatas refer to our sense organs. We also please them- because of desire we like to see good forms, eat good food and so on. There is a presiding deity for each sense organ. We because of our desire please them indirectly by indulgence and take it to be the supreme, not knowing that the source of bliss is Consciousness, the Paramatma which alone is reflecting its bliss through these.
(d) In adhi bhautik level (empirical level) the devata can refer to worldly things like pleasure, money, influential people whom the ignorant worship for limited returns.

Some people here take the meaning that the Lord is saying that one should worship Him (as Krishna) as he is the greatest. But such limited narrow meaning cannot be applicable here. The Lord here is talking as Brahman, Consciousness of which all other devatas are only reflections. Based upon our impressions each jiva catches one specific reflection and derives joy out of it and says that is the supreme. The Lord is saying get hold of the source and not the reflections, which also by the way is only Me but appearing limited. When I, infinite am there, why are you holding to the limited reflections, this is the purport of the Lord.

Sloka 21
Whatsoever one seeks to worship with firm faith in whatever form , that same faith of His I make it form. For they are only reflections of Me, they the ignorant seek the limited, but I alone am empowering them. But the ignorant think the limited has satisfied them and then they get bound.
The purport is - People in this world have faith, but their levels are variegated. The personality of that person is determined by his level of faith (broadly classified as sattvik, rajasik and tamsik).

Sloka 22

By the sharadda that has been made firm by me, with that same shraddha he worships, and he gets the objects of his desire. How he gets? Basically he (the ignorant) thinks that the devata has blessed him with the result.

The one Supreme God works through the many devatas. God is only one and Infinite. But his manifestation is seen in the form of many devatas. Each devata represents one aspect or power of that one infinite God. But based on one's own impressions, one worships one specific manifestation of the supreme and takes that as the ultimate Truth. And then they are fooled to believe that the devata has given the result. From the deity who is thus worshipped in that form, he obtains all desired objects as decreed by Me the omniscient and supreme Lord, as I alone know the subtle relation between action and its result. They do not know the Truth of that One all pervading Lord.

Let us understand this subjectively. If we take devata as presiding deity of sense organs, we because of desire want to have good food, listen good sound, see beautiful form and so on. We then think that the experience is the source of joy, i.e the presiding deity has "blessed" us. But the real source of joy is only Brahman reflected through them. But now I think the experience is giving me joy, and my faith in the sense organs (and the world) is cemented further by vasanas. This is bondage, this is Maya. Though all the experiences were complete because of the one Paramatma , yet he remains hidden.

The similar example appears in the Kena Upanisad where Yaksa (Brahman) is shown to work through Agni, Indra and so on by means of a story.

Hence many manifestations of the Supreme are possible, but the Supreme God is only One.

Now in Sloka 23, the Lord differentiates the nature of the result that an individual gets when he worships the Devatas and he worships the Supreme. He says that one who worships me get the infinite result but one who worships the devatas get only finite result.
Arvind
 
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby lakssg » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:01 pm

Verse20-23

The Lord after giving a detailed description of sukrithina and dushkrithina , now he wants to differentiate the bhakthas with desires – artha and artharthi – with others who have desires but not virtuous .
At a deeper level all beings act forced by janmanthara samskaras - vasanas accumulated from very many births .These express as desires and subsequently actions for fulfillment of desires
What is difference between virtuous people with desires and others with desires
Bhakthas with desires – They turn only to Lord for fulfillment are definitely better . Lord even though is the ultimate and independent he will not satisfy all desires – he analyses what is good for you and accordingly he may or may not grant your wishes. These people are not adamant .Even if all their desires are not fulfilled they accept it and they don’t go out of the way / go to other deities who can full fill them. These are the ones who will evolve and reach The Lord gradually.
Now the question comes who are the other deities- Deities like indra, yaksha, kinnara, bhootha or people with name , fame and money .They are dependent on the Lord and they are only distributing the Lord's wealth since they do not have anything of their own and even their very existence depends on Lord.
How –these deities satisfy desires of others- they adopt any means including adharma to satisfy others. The techniques they use may even destroy other beings
Desire ridden people who are not virtuous -These are people with very many desires and this in turn clouds their intellect and they are dull but for fulfilling their desires they go out of the way .They take the help of other deities by following all rules and regulations to satisfy them and even force them for their desire satisfaction. They don’t know the glory of the lord and they think these deities are ultimate.
What does Lord do to control them. Lord is the supreme and bestower of all fruits of action in this universe. Lord understanding their motive- desire satisfaction - helps them to deepen their faith for such deities because they are controlled and influenced by their own vasanas.
These deities being finite they also get finite results and are caught up in samsara always.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Arvind » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:44 am

Sloka 23

Now the Lord talks about the difference in the nature of results provided by the finite Gods and also Isvara., and why one should seek the Isvara and not the finite Gods.

Difference in Nature of Result
The results given by the finite Gods is limited, perishable. People with desires go to them , they do not have devotion or focus to one form of God. The Lord is not against going to a Devata. But knowledge must be there that it is the One Supreme God who is functioning through these. The one who worships the limited gets the limited, one who worships the One Lord gets the Infinite. For the Devatas cannot bestow Moksha, the One Supreme Lord alone can. Hence the wisest thing is to directly approach the One Lord who alone functions through the Devatas. For the effort is the same, but the ignorant ask for finite and get finite. It is lamentable indeed, thus the Lord expresses regret. Even the finite results granted by the Devatas is because of the Lord only, the ignorant do not know this and get bound.
So even though one may start with worship of a Devata, the devotion must culminate in that One Supreme Lord who pervades all this.

Difference in Nature of Attitude While Giving the Result
When one approaches a Devata, the Devata will not see what is good for us. Being bound by the laws of nature themselves they have to give the fruit when the seeker asks or approaches the Devata in the right fashion. The Devatas have been ordained by me to give the results, they have no choice but to give. Whether it is good for the devotee or not, the Devata has no interest, he just gives the fruit. The devotee of the Devata thinking the Devata to be great gets bound. Just like our sense organs, which are also Devatas (subjectively being presiding deities of the eyes and so on) - they just function as we use them and give us the enjoyments we seek through them- whether it is beneficial for us or not.
But the supreme Lord is different. He gives the fruit only if it is beneficial for the devotee. For the devotee has surrendered to the Supreme, the Lord will do what is good for the devotee. So ultimately he may also give the immediate result, but he is also capable of bestowing the Supreme Moksha. So he becomes like a parent, guiding the devotee even when giving the results we ask, but the other Devatas are not like that. Hence there is a difference even in the attitude while granting a result.

Hence the Lord says come to Me. Even if you worship the Devatas because of your previous samskaras, have the vision of the One Lord alone, in that way you will get both the finite (immediate) as well as the infinite (Moksha) and progress in spiritual path.
Arvind
 
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby madan » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:01 pm

Hari Om
Those whose mind have been stolen away by this and that desires under the guidance of their own nature worship other deities, following this and that methods.
Those whose mind have been looted away by various trifling desires, by such objectives as( acquiring the magical powers ) bewildering, paralysing, attracting, killing, etc, which are known to be unavailable through adoration of the God. These persons being driven by their tendencies earned in previous lives can not think of God but instead go to smaller god to get their desires of the type mentioned above fulfiled . they worship respective lesser deities who are different from Vasudev following this and that rites and rituals applicable to the deity worshipped. They do so according to the impressions generated in their previous lives.
The Lord says that, therefore, those who come to Me even though they may be : the afflicted or the seeker of wealth, they are better than other desiring people of the nature discussed above. Therefore, quality of their mind is also different.
A question may arise that through the grace of lesser deities they may develop devotion to Lord Vasudev at last. The Lord says no, because-

Verse-21, Whoever be the devotee, which ever may be the form of a deity, any person with desires to worship any deity with faith, by becoming united with devotion that has arisen under the influence of the impressions of past lives, I make the faith of that devotee firm towards that deity. But I do not make faith of that devotee get oriented towards Me. Here, the word 'tanu' indicates body is different with respect to self.

Verse-22, that desiring devotee endowed with that faith which has been strengthened by Me does the worship of that deity. He will get all that he has sought for I disperse him the fruit as per the rules.
Then what is the difference between the two types of devotee? Yes there is large difference.
The Lord says, ' although all forms are Mine who am all pervasive, and in reality they worship Me only, and in all the cases without exception I, the inner controller, am the giver of results, there still is a difference in results between My devotees and their devotee( of other deities), as they are not able to discriminate about Reality. So He says

Verse-23, Those whose mind are caught up in lower deities the fruit is limited; those who worship Dev go to the Dev Lok,but My devotee gets Me, who is permanent.
Why is it so? Because the worshippers of gods reach the gods,who are surely perishable. but My devotees, the three who have desires first get their desired objects through My grace . Afterwards they get Me as well, who am infinite and God. hence there is a large difference between My devotee and devotee of other gods, though craving for result is common.
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Re: Gita Chapter 7 - Jnana Vijnana Yoga

Postby Payyubg » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:20 am

Verses 20,21,22,23

A person's innate vasanas shrouds him from the supreme knowledge. He is hence prompted by desires . In order to fulfill these desires, he resorts to the worship of various devatas.

Bhagavan helps a person to remain steadfast in his worship of these devatas to achieve his desires. Bhagavan knows all of us inside out. He knows what we crave for at any given moment.

The devatas / our senses are only manifestations of bhagavan himself. In essence when a devotee prays to a devata he is actually indirectly or unknowingly seeking bhagavan himself.

There is a sloka in samskritam which says that "just like all the waters be it from the sky, river etc. ultimately goes to into the ocean, prayers that we recite for each and every god ultimately reaches the supreme lord (keshava)". ( I donot know from what text this is from but I have heard it several times).

The objects of our desires are only for instant gratification and to pamper our senses and ego .
Bhagavan grants these wishes based on our karmaphal. But we think that we have attained it because of our pujas to certain devatas. This explains why sometimes we donot get what we pray for or why sometimes you get something totally unexpected be it good or bad.

He gives us what we we deserve and what is best for us. Devatas cannot make that distinction. So it is pointless to worry about all that we want or need and desire.

The fulfilled desires give us joy, pride etc. but it is not permanent. It ceases once you have attained and enjoyed its benefits. A person who prays to other gods reach those gods. THey are stuck in the vicious cycle of seeking and asking for favors, feeling fulfilled or may be not ,only to start all over again.

A person who has surrendered to the supreme self is not worried about anything ,because he is sure Bhagavan will take care of all that is required. Such a person is able to completely focus on understanding and realizing the supreme self (Bhagavan), and thus goes to him directly . The bliss he attains is eternal.
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