Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds Chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.
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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:03 am

Hari OM

13. Explain the concept of varna

Varna literally means different shades of texture or colour. In the yoga sashtra, they attribute some definite colours to the triple gunas or the mental temparaments. Thus, sattva is considered white, rajas red, and tamas black. Man is essentially the thoughts that he entertains. From individual to individual, even when the thoughts are superficially the same, there are clear distinctions recognizable from their temperaments. On the basis of these temperamental distinctions, the entire mankind has been, for the purpose of spiritual study classified into four castes or varnas. Just as, in a metropolis on the basis of trade or professsion, we divide people into groups as doctors, advocates, professors, traders, politicians, tongawalas etc, so too, on the basis of the different textures of thoughts entertained, the four castes has been labelled in the past. From the stand point of the state, a doctor and tongawala are as important as an advocate and a mechanic. So too, for the perfectly healthy life of a society, caste should not be competitive but cooperative units each being complementary to the others, never competing among themselves.
This complete definition of the varna, not only removes the present misunderstanding but also provides us some data to understand its true significance. Not by birth is a man brahmana ( bramin); by cutivating good intentions and noble thoughts alone, can we ever aspire to brahmanahood; nor can we pose as brahmana merely because of our external physical marks or bodily actions in the outer world. The definition insists that he alone is the brahmana, whose thoughts are as satvik as his actions. Those who have a commercial attitude are vysyas. A kshatriya is one who is rajasik in his thoughts and actions. A sudra is not only one whose thoughts are tamasik but also he who lives a life of low endevours for satisfying his base animal passions and flesh appetites. ( 4.13)
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby vignesh » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:31 am

Verse 11

ye yatha mam prapadyante tams-tathaiva bhajamy-aham
mama vartmanu-vartante manusyah partha sarvasah

ye - who, yatha - in whatever way, mam - me, prapadyante- approach, tan- them, tatha-so, eva-even, bhajami -reward, aham-I, mama-my, vartma-path, anuvartante-tread, follow, manusyah - men, partha- O Partha, sarvasah- in all ways.

In wahtever way men approach Me, even so do I reward them; My path do men tread in all ways,O son of Prtha.

Thoughts & Concepts
10) The Lord says, " I tend my power to all without any partiality and in whatever form they invoke me, in that form I serve them". Explain.
An electric plug in the house can be used to hear a song over the radio, to cool ourselves with the breeze of a fan, to boil water, to cook or to warm the room with a heater; it all depends upon what instrument we plug into it. It is never possible that electricity flowing through the fan, of its own accord, can start emittting fire or light. Similarly the unmanifest eternal force of life can be invoked , and it shall fulfil all 'desires' through us according to the type of our invocations. This is the significance of the Lord's statement, " I lend my power to all without any partiality and in whatever form they invoke me, in that form I serve them". ( 4.11)
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:59 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.


Here are the Verses 11-13 for our discussion. Please post your thoughts, your study notes, reflections on these verses.

Offering this garland of verses to you O Krishna with Love from all of us...please help us in our studies.
============================================================

Verse 11

ये यथा मां प्रपद्यन्ते तान्स्तथैव भजाम्यहं |
मम वर्तमानुवर्तन्ते मानुषा: पार्थ सर्वश:||४.११||

ye yatha maam prapadhyante taanstathaiva bhajaamyaham
mama vartamanuvartante maanushaah paartha sarvashah

ये-ye-who, यथा - yatha - in whatever way, मां -mam- me, प्रपद्यन्ते - prapadhyante- approach, तान-tan-them, तथा -tatha-so, एव -eva-even, भजामि-bhajami - reward, अहं -aham- I, मम -mama- my, वर्त्म- vartma- path, अनुवर्तन्ते -anuvartante- tread, follow, मानुषा: -manushyah- men, पार्थ -partha- O Partha, सर्वश: -sarvashah- in all ways

11. In whatever way men approach Me, even so do I reward them, My path do men tread in all ways O son of Prutha

Verse 12

काङ्क्षन्त: कर्मणां सिद्धिं यजन्त इह देवता:|
क्षिप्रं हि मानुषे लोके सिद्धिर्भवति कर्मजा ||४.१२||

Kanksantah karmanam sidhim yajante iha devatah
Ksipram hi manuse loke sidhir bhavati karmaja.

काङ्क्षन्त: - kanksantah-longing for; कारणं- karmanam-of action; सिद्धिं -sidhim-success;
यजन्ते -yajante-sacrifice; इह-iha-in this; देवता:-devatah-gods;
क्षिप्रं -ksipram-quickly; हि-hi-because; मानुषे- manuse-in the human;लोके- loke-world;
सिद्धि: -sidhih-success, भवति-bhavati-is attained; कर्मजा-karmaja-born of action.


12. In this world of human beings; men seeking the fruition of their activities worship the gods; for success born of actions follows quickly.


Verse 13

चातुर्वर्ण्यं मया सृष्टं गुणकर्मविभागश:|
तस्य कर्तारमपि मम विद्यकर्तारमव्ययं ||४.१३||

chaturvarnyam maya srushtam gunakarmavibhagasha:
tasya kartaramapi mam vidhyakartaramavyam

चातुर्वर्ण्यं - charturvarnyam - the fourfold caste, मया- maya- by me , सृष्टं -srushtam- has been created, गुणकर्म विभागश: - gunaarmavibhagasha: -according to the diffrentiation of guna and karma, तस्य - tasya- whereof, कर्तारम - kartaram-the author, अपि -api- also, मां - mam- me, विद्धि- viddhi-know, अकर्तारं - akartaram-non doer, avyayam-अव्ययं - immutable

13. The fourfold caste has been created by Me according to the diffrentiation of Guna and Karma, though I am the author thereof know Me as non -doer and immutable.

HGRR -Thoughts and Concepts

10. The Lord says, " I lend my power to all without any partiality and in whatever form they invoke me, in that form I serve them." Explain.

An electric plug in the house can be used to hear a song over the radio, to cool ourselves with the breeze of a fan, to boil water, to cook or to warm the room with a heater, it all depends upon what insturment we plug into it. It is never possible that electricity flowing through the fan, of its own accord, can start emitting fire or light. Similalry, the unmanifest eternal force of life can be invoked, and it shall fulfill all "desires" through us according to the type of our invocations. This is the significance of Lord's statement, " I lend my power to all without partiality and in whatever form they invoke me, in that form I serve them." (4.11)

11 If the atmic force guides us on both the path of good and on the path of evil, then how is it that we see but
a rare few who are honestly trying to travel the path of righteousness, while the majority are pursuing the road
of evil?


Whether the mind wants to pursue an extrovert life or live the introvert joys, it can do so only by borrowing its
capacity and capability from the omnipotency of the atman; but the mind ever chooses an extrovert carrier because
it is easy to gain cheap pleasures by satisfying the sensuous ticklings of nerve tips. The quickest results are
gained when our sense organs come in contact with their desired objects as a result of deliberate actions. since
a sensuous life is a life of least resistance the majority of men, in their keen appetite for joy and peace, waist
their strength in hunting after, procuring and enjoying the fleeting pleasures of sense objects.


12 The four fold castes are based on Guna and Karma

The following stanza makes this clear:

चातुर्वर्ण्यं मया सृष्टं गुणकर्मविभागश:|
तस्य कर्तारमपि मम विद्यकर्तारमव्ययं ||४.१३||

chaturvarnyam maya srushtam gunakarmavibhagasha:
tasya kartaramapi mam vidhyakartaramavyam

13. The four fold caste has been created by Me according to the diffrentiation of Guna and Karma, though I am the author thereof, know Me as non doer and immutable. (4.13)

13. Explain the concept of varna

Varna literally means different shades of texture or colour. In the yoga sashtra, they attribute some definite colours to the triple gunas or the mental temparaments. Thus, sattva is considered white, rajas red, and tamas black. Man is essentially the thoughts that he entertains. From individual to individual, even when the thoughts are superficially the same, there are clear distinctions recognizable from their temperaments. On the basis of these temperamental distinctions, the entire mankind has been, for the purpose of spiritual study classified into four castes or varnas. Just as, in a metropolis on the basis of trade or professsion, we divide people into groups as doctors, advocates, professors, traders, politicians, tongawalas etc, so too, on the basis of the different textures of thoughts entertained, the four castes has been labelled in the past. From the stand point of the state, a doctor and tongawala are as important as an advocate and a mechanic. So too, for the perfectly healthy life of a society, caste should not be competitive but cooperative units each being complementary to the others, never competing among themselves.
This complete definition of the varna, not only removes the present misunderstanding but also provides us some data to understand its true significance. Not by birth is a man brahmana ( bramin); by cutivating good intentions and noble thoughts alone, can we ever aspire to brahmanahood; nor can we pose as brahmana merely because of our external physical marks or bodily actions in the outer world. The definition insists that he alone is the brahmana, whose thoughts are as satvik as his actions. Those who have a commercial attitude are vysyas. A kshatriya is one who is rajasik in his thoughts and actions. A sudra is not only one whose thoughts are tamasik but also he who lives a life of low endevours for satisfying his base animal passions and flesh appetites. ( 4.13)


Regards
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:52 pm

Hari OM
Notes on Verse 11-13

In whatever way men identify with Me, in the same way I do carry out their desires.
Different kinds of food suit different beings. But each being receives nourishment from the food it takes. Likewise, the religious practices are divergent to suit the varying temperaments. Worship with the aid of an image, for example, is help to one and not to another. But the same Lord recognizes the need for all these divergent paths, understands the urge in the hearts of the various types of devotees and helps them all to attain perfection.

Why are people running after little things instead of seeking the Lord Himself? Is explained in verse 12. The higher the ideal, the more arduously one has to prepare oneself for it and the longer one has to wait for it. Self knowledge is relatively harder to attain than the fruits of action. The ignorant seek for sense objects, since they are easily attainable.

Ideals vary according to mental attainments of people. How are we know the attainments of people is explained in verse 13. The worth of man is in the mind and not in the body. Mind has its color according to Guna. As man evolves, Guna and mind which are interrelated, get refined. The colour or class of man goes up accordingly. The worldly man’s classification of himself into the four castes based on birth ( jaathi) is merely a convention and does not tally with his attainments. The real classification is based on the degree of ethical and spiritual perfection of mind and not based on birth of the body.

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sganesh0112 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:21 pm

Hari Om! and Pranams!

Continuing our study, we may feel confused that if any of the three paths of study lead to salvation, why then there are feelings of affection and aversion, since some are liberated and not all. Here the Lord proceeds to clarify our doubts in the following verses –

V -11 – Blessed Lord says –“In whatever way men approach Me, even so do I reward them; My path do men tread in all ways-“

We are given the supreme equipment by the Lord, to invoke the Infinite Mind. If we rightly utilize the various equipment given to us by the Ever Compassionate Lord, guarding ourselves from all the mundane attachments and aversions, we can reach the Goal of our activities Here, the Lord Himself says, “ I, As Life , Lend My Power to all without any partiality; in whatever form they invoke Me, in that form I serve them”. It can be further explained that if the un-manifest Eternal Force of Life can be invoked, It shall fulfil all ‘desires’ through us according to the type of our invocations. However, if we misuse the very Divine Force it can be cause of our utter disaster.

The Blessed Lord is gracious to all the creatures of the universe, and will grant them all their desires, but why is it that ordinarily men do not desire to seek Him and gain the Infinite. The Lord Himself further explains –

V-12 – “They who long for satisfaction from action in this world, make sacrifices to the gods; because satisfaction is quickly obtained from action in the world-of-objects”

The Atmic-force guides one on both the paths, the path-of-good and the path-of-evil. It is upto the individual to choose from the two – Sreyas or Preyas. Lord Krishna says, whether the mind wants to pursue an extrovert life, or live the introvert joys, it can do so only by borrowing its capacity and capability from the Omnipotency of the Atman. But it is seemingly easy to get the joys through Preyas from the outside world in the world of objects because in this world the quickest results are gained when our sense-organs come in contact with their desired objects as the result of deliberate actions. The common man in search of quick joy and peace, wastes his spiritual strength in hunting after, procuring and enjoying the fleeting sense-objects.

Based on their extrovert nature, men can again be divided into four types, on the basis of the finer distinctions of textures of their thought and action.

V-13 – “ The four-fold caste system has been created by Me according to the differentiation of GUNA and KARMA; though I am the author therof know ME as non-doer and immutable.”

Based on the stand-point of one’s mental temperaments, yoga sastra has attributed certain colours to the three Gunas – Sattwa is white, Rajas is red and Tamas is black. Man is essentially the thoughts that he entertains. In this verse- the Lord clearly informs that based on the mental temperaments and action, the entire mankind is divided for the purpose of spiritual study into four ‘castes’ or Varnas. If we delve into the description deeper , we would be finding that the decadent Hindu society is divided socially into this four castes by the cheap pundits or the persons who claim to be Brahmins. But the Lord clearly says, “By the differentiation of the men tal quality and physical action of the people – these categories have been formed”. Nobody is a Brahmin by birth – but only by cultivating good intentions and noble thoughts alone can one aspire to Brahmanahood. i.e a person whose thoughts are as much Sattwic as his actions are. A Kshatriya is one who is Rajasic in his thought and actions, a Sudhra is tamasic in thought and lives a life of low endeavours for satisfying his base animal passions and flesh-appetites.

The concept of this Varna is further elaborated in Purushasuktam in the verse – “Brahmanasya mukham asit Bahoorajanya priyah – uruthadasya yat Vysyah padbyahum Sudro Ajayathah” . Brahmin is one who is the thinking part of the body – that is the head – which has the brain controlling the entire body, Kshatriya is like the fore limbs of the body – ever ready to do the action closest to the Lord, Vysyas are like the thigh which practically controls the entire body, and Sudras are like the legs – ever ready to serve by helping one move from place to place etc. The entire Varna concept has been grossly misinterpreted with the above definitions by the royal or the elite class – who consistently have exploited the other aspects. Can a person be fit and complete without any one of the angas indicated above? Moreover, if all the groups work together as one body the society will flourish.

The second part of the verse presents a contradiction – when the Lord says that this caste system has been created by Him but He Himself is immutable and is a Non-doer or Saakshi. This part also throws light into the concept of Maya. We humans bound by our own mental temperaments and actions cannot escape from the clutches of Maya – but since the Lord is beyond Maya – He infact, is Changeless and All-Pervading and hence is neither the Doer nor the Creator.

Pranams

S Ganesh
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:41 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

As very rightly pointed out by Muruganji and illustrated by giving example of different foods, as they bring nourishment to the body, each person is different and worships or tries to approach Him in different ways. But He is there for everyone and doesn’t demand that He be approached in any particular way. He is impartial and serves everyone in the same form as they approach. This also amounts to saying that good actions will bring good results and bad actions would bring bad results. Because there isn’t anything good or bad as such for God, these are only human labels.

Ganeshaji has also nicely commented on caste system, giving example of purushsukta. The sane example has been explained in Geeta lessons of Chinmay Mission Geeta Study Course as well. As Muruganji says, the caste system by birth is merely a convention and the differentiation should be based on mental traits and inclinations. For a society to be healthy and function perfectly, all the four varnas are needed and there is nothing such as higher or lower castes.

Meeraji will be posting her reflections shortly. I request Vighaneshaji and Sathivathiji to post their study notes, reflections.

Regards
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:41 am

Hari Om..


Ch 4, verse 11-13

REFLECTIONS

Verse 11;

Synopsis: Everyone is on the Path in one way or another. However one approached the Lord, so He greets them, so He meets them, so He rewards them.
There is a mathematical logic to the Supreme Consciousness. While it may not always adhere to a mathematical quantity, it responds with logic, and that is the point.


If we remove the personification that we attach to Bhagawan and instead refer to God-ness as Consciousness, it will be more acceptable to understand a God that does not operate from duality, from emotion, from likes and dislikes. Which is what Consciousness does: It has no preference or dislike or emotional motive to choose a given decision.

Everything is according to logic. There is a Cosmic Law to which everyone subscribes and adheres. Everyone has a BMI which works in a given way. If used appropriately, Conscisouness will lead us on the Path.

Yet failure to use the upadhis appropriately results in being reprimanded because my failure to use my BMI appropriately is the equivalent of my failing to do my duty which is nothing but denying others their rights.

Simply stated when I fail to do my duties, others fail to get their rights, and for this the Order reprimands me with an inability to move forward.

Gurudev gives a terrific analogy of the car and the fuel. He says petrol in a car is utilised by the mechanism which is finally applied by the intellect of the driver.

The fuel will make the mechanism work, but man’s intellect has to make the mechanism work intelligently. Thus this very same BMI can be applied to cause pain or to bring happiness to the world.

The car’s mechanism is emotionless and so too the petrol. Neither have any likes or dislikes. The same petrol can enable if the driver drives well and carefully.

The very same petrol will lead a car to disaster if the driver drives recklessly.

This is akin to blaming nuclear energy for worldwide destruction. No. Nuclear energy is a power that can help if the ‘driver’ chooses to apply it to mass happiness. But if a nation chooses to apply it to attack and hurt, then pain will result from the application of nuclear/atomic energy.

A knife can cut vegetables to feed a human being. Or it can be used to kill a human being. The knife itself has neither imbedded hatred or love. It is an instrument.

Another example Gurudev uses is electricity – similar to atomic power, electricity can heat water or cool a room.

Therefore prayer and worship, ie, intention, can be for selfish gains, for greater good, for greater pain, for inner growth, for adoration, for cribbing, for health, for wealth.....the purpose for which we choose to apply it, invoke it will be fulfilled or aided.

The life force, Consciousness operating in a rapist and in an evangelist is the same. The intention – and continued intention is what shapes the upadhis, instruments – is what defines the achievement.


Will post 12 and 13 in the course of the day...
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:09 pm

Hari Om...


Verse 12:

The intent behind Krishna’s words is to clarify that He provides the capability to all people, whether they worship Bhagawan or worship their own interpreatation of happiness. Like the Bible says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" [Exodus 20:3] or 'Let there be no other God..'; by which is meant, let your pursuit, your goal, your passion be the union with the Lord the One and therefore do not make lesser things your God, like wealth, fame, name, power etc. These lesser passions are the lower or lesser gods that man pursues.

But people do take time to come to realise their relationsip with the Lord, and with the word (jiva, jagat isvara). It happens. We are all on different planes of evolution, but all evolution is owing to and out of the Lord. We know He is the energiser, enlivener... He is the life force behind every creation, then even an ant is owing to the Lord. The turning of the soil by the earthworm is the capability and the power of the Lord. The flight of the bird through the clouds is the Lord’s opower...we just saw that the life force enlivens all creation, how the instruments is used is up to the driver of the chariot. So Bhagawan does not differentiate.

Synopsis: But different people have different pursuits depending on their inner evolution. Those who are satisfied with sense related pleasure, will be happy pursuing those and will even pray for the attainment of those objects. This, despite knowing that the same Lord can even grant Moksha, liberation of this samsara. Why is that?

Sometimes a shell in the sand shines and leads us to believe that it is silver. Some people, low in their intelligence, will think it is silver and stop, and dig the sand to retrieve it. Others know that all that glitters is not gold/silver; or they know that when the rays of the sun hits certain objects in the sand, a sort of mirage like effect causes a distortion so that shells look like silver... such people will ignore the call of the glitter and keep walking.

Similarly, some already on the path to knowing who they are have begun their inquiry into it, hence will not have need for more than survival needs. The rest of their pursuit is devoted to examining and exploring their relationship with the Lord. But those who are stimulated by the joys of accomplishments, performance, gains, wealth, and so on, will engage in these avenues repeatedly and count their gains from every engagement. The thing about these pursuits is (or any pursuit) is this: the more we indulge in it, the deeper the grooves it cuts, so that every thought falls into the groove and assumes the same nature. If we indulge in inquiry then every action will trannlsate into self inquiry and conclude with, ‘Then who am I?’

The pursuit of material world becomes a habit when other pursuits are not made known to a jiva, which is why initiation to scriptural study (via say Bal Vihar) at a very young age is valuable. Yet, the pursuit of the material world is also enabled by the Lord. And this is the point Krishna makes: whatever you choose to pursue, I will deliver the capability. So if one pursues wealth with a passion and offers sacrifices to the devatas so that wealth may be added to him, so that he is successful on the path of wealth, Bhagawan will enable that capability, and this is the point.

Hence viveka.

If one works towards knowing rela from unreal, good from not good, then one’s pursuit is also so geared.

The other point Krishna makes here is that the objects (read: Goals) of the world, are easily attained because the effort to attain those are simple. Attaining the Lord demands great effort, great sacrifice, great perseverance and therefore a courageous heart. Failure is differently defined in sadhana, but the frustration of not attaining is made that much more enhanced by the fact that there is the mind to deal with, a mind that can easily tire of non fulfilment and demand joy...

Hence sadhana returns greatest reward, but demands a huge price.

Whatever it be, whether we want Bhagawan or the world, both He enables, and He says He is indifferent to what we choose, since He has given to each the upadhis to nurture and grow in the right direction. Plus He has given us the shastras which we have the viveka to use/employ.

If a man chooses to worship the world of objects owing to his ignorance, Bhagawan does not judge that as good or bad. Ignorance, in the eyes of the Lord is not punishable  Bhagawan is ever eager to guide every soul Home, if some sheep wander off into gazing at the tinsel in the sand, He will make sure they are ‘looked after’ while He shepherds the ones on track, Home. Not because He loves them or prefers them, but because their invocation of the Lord has been for moksha and has been hard, hence the Cosmic Law will award them appropriately.

Hari Om..
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:05 pm

HARI OM

VERSE--12

Men alone possess the qualification to worship gods like Indra through the performance of sacrifices and other forms
of worship.Other beings do not possess this facility.This is indicated by the word 'loke'qualified by the adjective
'iha' and 'manuse'. People who are attached to wordly enjoyments seek the frution of their activitiesin the form of acquiring
worldly possessions such as wife, progeny, wealth, a house to live in, honour and fame etc.Since their actions are clouded
by cravings of various kinds they take to worship of celestials like Indra inorder to get quick results of their actions.
It is not in the nature of celestials to see whether the bestowalof a particular gift on a worshipper will be conducive
to his interest or not. They are only concerned with the due completion of a ritual. On the other hand gods dispensation
with regard to a devotee are always guided by considerations of his real interest. If the devoteeworships him even
with an interested motive,he fulfils only those desires of the devotee whose satisfaction will turn his face from wordly
enjoyments and accentuate his love for, and faith in god.Therefore, wordly man donot see quick results following the
practice of devotion to god.


verse--13

The relative proportion of the qualities of sattva (harmony), RAJAS(MOTION), TAMAS(INERTIA) constituting the nature of
an individual is determined by the type of actions done by him in course of his previous births from time without beginning,
and which have not yet borne fruit.God determines ones birth according to his qualities and latencies of his karma.
Those in whom the qualities of sattva predominates are ordained to be born as brahmanas.Those in whom the quality
of rajas with an admixture of sattva predominates are caused to be born as ksatriyas.Those in whom the quality of rajas
with an admixture of tamas predominates are to be born as vaisyas and in whom tamas with an admixture of rajas
predominates are caused to be born amoung the sudras.The duties of each of the four orders so created are according to their natural
natural inclinations.That is why brahmna should practice control of mind and senses, ksatriya should exhibit valour and energy,
vaisya should engage in agriculture,rearing of cows etc. while sudra should devote to physical service.
In this way four orders of society are created by god classifying them according to the qualities predominent in each
and aportioning corresponding duties to them.God creates this universe, not directly but through his prakrti.he is
essentially a non doer.The lord brings about the divine character of his activities.He remains totally indifferent
and ever unattached to action.When even a man of knowledge who acts without attachment to the fruits of actions
and the sense of doership, is not considered to be a doer, and ceases to have any connection with the fruit of those actions,
then, that man should call himself a non doer.Really speaking God's activities are in every way transcendental and
out of the common.


verse--14




Men performing actions have the feeling of meum,attachment,desire for the fruit of actions
and sense of doership present in them, the latencies of those actions get stored in their
mind and bring them rebirth after death and various forms of joys and sorrows. This is

what is meant by contaminated by actions.Lord says that he requires nothing for himself.
What ever he does he does for the good of the world.He has no feeling of possession,
no attachment, no desire for the fruits and no sense of doership.He has no connection
with his activities.all his activities are divine in character and that is why they
do not cause him any bondage.The man who thus comes to know in reality this secret
of gods actions begins himself to act like god, purely with a view to the maintenance
of the world order, and free from the feeling of possession, attachment, desire for fruit and
sense of doership. Hense his actions donot bind him.
sathiavathi
 
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby vignesh » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:15 pm

Thank you all for the excellent explanations. I learnt good points from your posts.
Though I have nothing more to add, these three verses explain that the Lord can be reached by all as per their self efforts, people choose worldly actions because the results are tangible and the society can be rightly classified according to the gunas and karmas.
regards
vignesh
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:06 am

Hari Om..


Verse 13:

Synopsis: Man can be classified according to his actions and thoughts, by the quality of his thoughts and actions, into four types. Bhagawan says that all these types are created by Him, yet He is not the One who is the doer or the thinker of these types.

Until now we saw that Bhagawan does not have likes and dislikes. That with whatever attitude I approach Him, so He gives me. He can grant me whatever I want. And if I want EVERYTHING, then that too can be mine, called infinite. Yet I – and others like me – do not want to seek the Lord.

Bhagawan then said that the path to Home is tough, demands courage, perseverance and patience, demands hard work, BUT He will be guiding us all through and will never let us fall. We simply need to follow Him. But for many this path is either lacking in ‘excitement’ and they seek the path of little joys and big sorrows, or the mind and hence the ego, seeks instant gratification and does not have the stamina (because it has not trained itself) to go the long haul. So the simplest solution is to bring the sense organs in contact with their sense objects by letting them graze in their respective sense fields. This is what living has become for most. A lot of this is owing to the tiredness, frustration, exhaustion of chasing a suboptimal life. Consequently the world is pervaded with sensuality, superficiality, shallow existence, empty words.

Thus according to his desires, his temperaments, man is known to be the thoughts that he entertains. Depending on whether a person is equanimous, agitated-excitable – passionate – prone to activity OR if he is lazy, prone to be slothful, untidy, have complaints about everything, tend to like cheating, prone to serious dishonesty, insensitive... a tendency to be animalistic in attitude, ie, preference to act without thought, based on impulse of the mind --- people were grouped into classes so that the work they did, would be supported by their essential nature while also helping them rise out of it.

Now here is the crux of this verse: All said and all done, all these types of thoughts and types of temperaments even if pervaded by the Lord are not the action of the Lord.

This is very clear to us if read in the context of verse 11 where Bhagawan says I lend my power to all without any reservation. The analogy that helped us understand was that of electricity – whatever be the upadhi that is hooked to electricity, it is the upadhi that works . Electricity neither chooses which appliance to work with or how much to heat it. If the upadhi is set to a certain degree of heat, electricity will power that. If the appliance is set to cool, electricity will provide the power. Any appliance breakdown cannot be the fault of the electricity. Either the upadhi was too weak or poorly designed.

Electricity makes no choice nor does it have likes or dislikes.

Ditto for Bhagawan. As He is invoked, so He powers us. Therefore the temperaments of rajas and tamas etc belong to the upadhi not to Bhagawan. The will to be rajasic also is the guna of the upadhi/jiva not Bhagawan’s.

Let us therefore know that this is leading up to a simple point: We are the authors of our life. Our gains and losses are ours. Bhagawan does not engineer it, hence may we never say, “God has given me grief...” Bhagawan does nothing. It is for us to invoke Him.
Why not then invoke Him with sincerity to ask that He please eradicate our ignorance?

To understand this better:

I create my thoughts based on my gunas. They feed on each other. I choose to hold on to a thought and be led by it. Consequently I CHOOSE to be misled, to misunderstand. (Not understanding is a function of not training myself to be alert to intelligence; this I do by falling into unintelligent ways of living and again, thinking). Non apprehension of jagat as unreal leads to the apprehension that it is Real, I then begin to project my (mind’s) own illusions about what this ‘reality’ should do for me. And then I am angry that the ‘reality’ did not bring me happiness.

Vedanta and Krishna call this ignorance, avidya. Therefore Avidya is: Not seeing a thing for what it is and consequently seeing it as what my mind chooses to see it as and then being hurt by it.
The delusion is a combined effect of my sense organs and my mind, says Krishna. All He does is give the upadhis sentiency.

Therefore let us know this: even if I see a ghost on the post, a) the nature of the post remains that of a post, b) the post is not affected by the fact that I superimposed a ghost on it c) the ghost I superimposed on it, causes me grief, not to the post. D) The post is just the canvas on which I saw a ghost or a robber or a tree or anything that my upadhis reveal depending on my temperament.

Hence Bhagawan says I am not the author of that ghost, so don’t blame me.

Hari Om.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:46 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Excellent reflections this time by all! Really makes the understanding clear and sharp! :) Thanks to all!!

Let us proceed further with our studies.

Verse for posting :

14 - Vighneshaji
15 - Sathiavathiji

HGRR Excerpts :

Thoughts and Concepts - 14 - Uma

Selections for Reflection - 5 - Muruganji

Verses for memorisation : 14 - For all

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby vignesh » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:02 pm

Verse 14

na mam karmani limpanti na me karma-phale sprha
iti mam yo bhijanati karmabhir-na sa badhyate.

na- not, mam- me, karmani - actions, limpanti - taint, na- not, me- my, karma-phale- for the fruits of actions, sprha- desire, iti -thus, mam-me, yah -who, abhijanati- knows, karmabhih- by actions, na- not, sah - he, badhyate - is bound.

Actions do not taint Me, nor have I any desire for the fruits of actions. He who knows Me thus is not bound by his actions.

regards
vignesh
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

HARI OM

VERSE--15

Evam jnatva krtam karma purvair-api mumuksubhih
kuru karmaiva tasmat-tvam purvaih purvataram krtam.


evam-thus; jnatva-having known; krtam-(was) DONE;

karma-actions; purvaih-by ancients; api-also

mumuksubhih-seekers of freedom; kuru-perform;

karma action; eva even; tasmat-therefore;

tvam-you; purvaih-by ancients

purvataram-in the olden time; krtam-done.

Thus knowing, the ancient seekers of freedom also performed action; therefore, you too
perform action, as did the ancients.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:48 am

Hari OM

Selections for Reflection :

5. The sun reflected in bowl of water is entirely dependent upon the condition of the water. The reflected-sun is shaken when the water in the bowl is disturbed and it appears to be dim when the water is muddy. Neither the dimmness nor the agitations of the reflection have caused any change at all in the orignial object-the sun in the heavens. Similarly, the ego suffers the evil tendencies and such other taints of the mind and also gets disturbed due to its "desires" for the fruits of action. The Self, in Its pure Conscious nature, is not at all affected by these delusory disturbances of Its own reflection in the mental pool. ( 4.14)

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:33 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

HGRR

Thoughts and Concepts 14

14. Who is not bound by his actions?

The following verse provides the reply to the above question:

न मां कर्माणि लिम्पन्ति न मे कर्मफले स्पृहा |
इति मां योsभिजानाति कर्मभिर्न स बध्यते ||१४||

na mama karmani limpanti na me karmaphale spruha
iti mama yobhijanati karmabirna sa badhyate

Actions do not taint Me, nor have I any desire for the fruits of actions.
He who knows Me thus is notbound by his actions. (4.14)

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:47 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.
Here are the Verses 14-15 for our discussion. Please post your thoughts,
your study notes, reflections on these verses.

Offering this garland of verses to you O Krishna with Love from all of
us...please help us in our studies.
============================================================


Verse 14

न मां कर्माणि लिम्पन्ति न मे कर्मफले स्पृहा |
इति मां योsभिजानाति कर्मभिर्न स बध्यते ||१४||

na mam karmani limpanti na me karma-phale sprha
iti mam yo bhijanati karmabhir-na sa badhyate.

न-na- not, मां-mam- me, कर्माणि-karmani - actions, लिम्पन्ति-limpanti - taint, न-na- not, मे-me- my, कर्म-फले-karma-phale- for the fruits of actions, स्पृहा-sprha- desire, इति-iti -thus, मां-mam-me, य-yah -who, अभिजानाति-abhijanati- knows, कर्मभि-karmabhih- by actions, न-na- not, स:-sah - he, बध्यते
-badhyate - is bound.

Actions do not taint Me, nor have I any desire for the fruits of actions. He who knows Me thus is not bound by his actions.

Verse-15

एवं ज्ञात्वा कृतं कर्म पूर्वैरपि मुमुक्षुभि:|
कुरु कर्मैव तस्मात्त्वं पूर्वै: पूर्वतरं कृतं ||१५||

Evam jnatva krtam karma purvair-api mumuksubhih
kuru karmaiva tasmat-tvam purvaih purvataram krtam.

एवं-evam-thus; ज्ञात्वा-jnatva-having known; कृतं-krtam-(was) done; कर्म-karma-actions; पूर्वै-purvaih-by ancients; अपि-api-also,
मुमुक्षुभि-mumuksubhih-seekers of freedom; कुरु-kuru-perform; कर्म-karma action; एव-eva- even; तस्मात-tasmat-therefore;
त्वं-tvam-you; पूर्वै:-purvaih-by ancients, पूर्वतरं-purvataram-in the olden time; कृतं- krtam-done.

Thus knowing, the ancient seekers of freedom also performed action; therefore, you too perform action, as did the ancients.

HGRR

Thoughts and Concepts 14

14. Who is not bound by his actions?

The following verse provides the reply to the above question:

न मां कर्माणि लिम्पन्ति न मे कर्मफले स्पृहा |
इति मां योsभिजानाति कर्मभिर्न स बध्यते ||१४||

na mama karmani limpanti na me karmaphale spruha
iti mama yobhijanati karmabirna sa badhyate

Actions do not taint Me, nor have I any desire for the fruits of actions.
He who knows Me thus is notbound by his actions. (4.14)

Selections for Reflection :

5. The sun reflected in bowl of water is entirely dependent upon the condition of the water. The reflected-sun is shaken when the water in the bowl is disturbed and it appears to be dim when the water is muddy. Neither the dimmness nor the agitations of the reflection have caused any change at all in the orignial object-the sun in the heavens. Similarly, the ego suffers the evil tendencies and such other taints of the mind and also gets disturbed due to its "desires" for the fruits of action. The Self, in Its pure Conscious nature, is not at all affected by these delusory disturbances of Its own reflection in the mental pool. ( 4.14)

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:27 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Reflections on Verse 14 and 15:

Usually , all our actions bind us, because we do actions with some desire in mind. Our vasanas prompt us to do actions and we desire results from our actions and get bound by such actions in return. The sandesh of Geeta is to do actions without desiring the fruits of the action. Doing actions for Him or surrendering the fruits to Him or accepting the results of the action graciously without any excessive joy or grief is the key to freedom.
Although, it is said that God has created this entire universe, it is created by prakruti powered by the mere presence of the God. He, as such is akarta and also not bound by the karmas as He has no desire. So to gain freedom, perform the actions for Him, surrendering the fruits to Him only.
He is within us, then why do we think of evil thoughts? Why do we behave foolishly? He is definitely with us and empowers us, but the thoughts we think are chosen by us, they are not chosen by Him. We forget His presence within and think that our ego is our Self. This changes our behavior and is the basis of all grief

Regards

uma
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby vignesh » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:13 pm

Actions are inevitable and we have to perform actions whether we like it or not. However, what actions are to be performed and how should we view the results of our actions are in our hand. When we perform actions without egocentric attitude, they do not affect us. They do not leave any strong impressions in our mind. Lord performs actions without any ego centric desires and one who understands this aspect of action, gains mental purity. He is not affected by the results of actions.
Wise and Noble people who have understood the nature of action and how they have to be performed, have attained thier life's goal of self realization and we need to follow their path.

regards
vignesh
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:30 pm

HARI OM

VERSES-13 AND 14.

Men performing actions have the feeling of meum,attachment,desire for the fruit of actions
and sense of doership present in them, the latencies of those actions get stored in their
mind and bring them rebirth after death and various forms of joys and sorrows. This is

what is meant by contaminated by actions.Lord says that he requires nothing for himself.
What ever he does he does for the good of the world.He has no feeling of possession,
no attachment, no desire for the fruits and no sense of doership.He has no connection
with his activities.all his activities are divine in character and that is why they
do not cause him any bondage.The man who thus comes to know in reality this secret
of gods actions begins himself to act like god, purely with a view to the maintenance
of the world order, and free from the feeling of possession, attachment, desire for fruit and
sense of doership. Hense his actions donot bind him.He leads a pure life with sat-chit-anandam.
sathiavathi
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:09 am

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