Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds Chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.
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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sathiavathi » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:00 pm

HARI OM
VERSE--15


Describing the divine character of God's activities, Lord now cites the example of the ancient seekers for liberation
and commands Arjuna to follow in their foot steps and act in a disinterested spirit.

Mumuksu or seeker for liberation is one who desires to realize God, the embodiment of supreme bliss, through liberation
from the bondage of births and deaths, who has turned his back on the enjoyments of the world knowing them to be
ephemeal and sorrowful, and who has no craving for the enjoyments of the world or next.Arguna too was a mumuksu
and had sought to abandon his duty fearing lest he might be bound by his actions. Therefore, taking the example of
ancient seekers for liberation, lord explain to him that by mere renounciation of action one cannot be freed from the bondage
of actions.Mumuksu's performed their respective duties,with due regard to their order in society and stage in life
and in a quite disinterested spirit, renouncing the feeling of possession and sense of doership as well as attachment
and desire for the fruit.Therefore if Arjuna sought liberation from the bondage of karma, he should follow the footsteps
of ancient seekers for liberation and perform his own duty disinterestedly, never thinking of renouncing the same.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:36 am

Hari OM

Is there any benifit to an aspirant from the Lord's statement that He is in fact actionless and changeless, is explained in verse 14. Karma produces modifications of the mind in the egoistic man. " I do", I enjoy - attitudes such as these are the modifications. But the Lord is free from egoism. He is therefore untainted by actions. The Lord has everything contained in Him and He transcends them all. Therefore, He has nothing to desire. The spiritual student who comes to know of this glory of the Lord would like to be himself unaffected by egoism and free from the binding nature of desires.
Did the ancient wise people, who knew about the actionlessness of the Lord, neglect their duty? No, they performed actions with absolute freedom, with out egoism and pressure of the outcome of actions. The seekers of freedom walked this path through ages.

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sganesh0112 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:57 pm

Hari Om and Pranams!

Greetings on the Holy day of Sri Rama Navami, the day on which the Lord took his human form as Dasaratha's son Rama, lived a life of principles and set us an example of the path to be followed for crossing this Bhavasaagara. It is also a day when Prakriti and Purusha in the human form of Sita and Rama respectively entered into their wedlock on this world (because this Chaitra Navaratri also is called Vasantha Navaratri or the nine nights of Spring, a season known for its beauty and joy and full of Navarasas) . May the Lord's Blessings ever be there for all of us who have decided to tread on the path of Self realisation.

My reflection on verses 14 and 15.

Continuing our study, it is no surprise that the same Lord in the second part of the last verse stated that though he created the caste system He Himself is immutable and is a Non-doer or Saakshi continues to explain that -

V -14 – Blessed Lord says –“Actions do not taint Me, nor have I any desire for the fruits-of-actions. He who knows Me thus is not bound by his actions“

Here if we look back verses – 3-37 to 3-41, the Lord has explained in detail what desires can do to a Sadhaka, we can once again understand this stanza better. Taint or “desire” can come only to an ego, which is “the Self, functioning through given mind and intellect”. When the thoughts like I and mine arise and when any action is undertaken with the feeling of I and mine, it means that action is bound by our desire for the fruits-of-action. Because of this ego, the mind gets tainted or disturbed due to desires of “Fruits of Actions”. The Self, in Its Pure Conscious-nature, is not at all affected by these delusory disturbances on Its own reflection in the mental pool. Further, if we all perform actions with Sakshi Bhava and surrender to the Lord, such actions help us in reducing our vasanas and our own inner agitations and to that extent we will have progressed in the Correct Path.

V-15- Blessed Lord further clarifies – “Having known this, the ancient seekers-after-freedom also performed action: therefore, you too perform action, as did the ancients in the olden times”

This stanza from the explanation given in the verses 3-42 and 3-43, where the Lord has cautioned us to look for the dangerous enemy of the Sadhaka i.e. desire. Once we know the Truth of our ancient fore-fathers, who have willingly performed actions without any desire for / of the results, we can and should also perform our actions irrespective of the results.

Pranams once again

SGanesh
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:27 pm

Hari Om..

Many thanks for Ram Navami greetings...

Some reflections on Verse 14:


Verse 14:
Synopsis: Bhagawan affirms here that He does not perform any actions, has no desire for fruit nor urge to act. If we truly understand this, then our actions will cease to bind us.

This verse picks up on the earlier verse where Bhagawan categorically clarifies to Arjuna that whatever a jiva chooses, He, Bhagawan Krishna has no role to play. That man chooses actions according to his desires and vaasanas.

Bhagawan has no vasanas, that is why He is unborn, ie, does not have birth or body or mind. No vasana= no sense of inadequacy. Vasanas are the hammers that aid man to seemingly complete his imperfect personality by chasing those things he thinks, will complete him. This is what 'tainting' really means, leaving behind an impression that will cause Him to form attachment to the fruit of that action or too the action itself. So even if He Krishna and Arjuna were born many times before and had been 'here', there is a difference between Krishna's being born and Arjuna's several births. That Krishna wills to take birth for dharmasansthapanaarthaaya for sadunaam.

And these births and the actions associated with them such as marriage or fatherhood or teacherhood...none bring with them a desire for their continuity. It is from this standpoint that Bhagawan makes these comments.

To understand why He cannot be 'tainted' by actions:

He is ever full, ever happy. Lacks nothing, feels no inadequacy or craving.
No vasanas also = no desires. = no action
We look for the fruit of action only when we are seeking fulfilment and there is ego intervention. Bhagawan has none of these handicaps.

The ego itself is agitated into action by the desires in our bosom. In other words, vasanas, the seeds of our desires are the fundamental obstructions we bear in ourselves. This whole business of ‘I want’ is an expression of the ego sensing vasanas.
If we link the above logic together, we will understand that Bhagawan is ajaya, ie He has no birth because He is not bound by karma. Yes, He can choose to assume a form and present Himself among us, but that is not called birth.

In the second line of this verse, Bhagawan reveals under what condition is man’s action not binding on him. There are two parts to this revelation: a) knowing that desire stems from the ego and belongs to the ego. B) that I am not the ego, I am the Atma.

Not just theoretic understanding but an experiential understanding which will in parallel reflect in one’s other behaviours. So this Knowing too has to arise from a union with Brahman, through realising in the depths of meditation that I am That Consciousness in a body and the nature or quality of the housing or body has no impact on Me. And this knowing is not as in knowing an object apart from us, (like, this is an apple and I know it so) but as a realistaion of one’s real nature.

The crux of both these sentences is important for our current situation: a) In knowing that the suffering that is in one’s life belongs to the BMI; to the ego. The one suffering is the ego. The suffering of ‘fruit not reaped’ is the suffering of the mind and ego.... and then for us to stand apart from it not identifying with the suffering b) the suffering is not brought upon my BMI by Bhagawan, He has no role. He is not in Reality, the author of those actions either. Just as the choices I make are my actions, the fruit of my actions are also mine not His actions.

With practice and self suggestion, over time and sincerity we will come to distance ourselves from the feelings of the mind and the pain of the ego, knowing them to be My mere instruments, and I merely occupying those encasements for the time being, to illumine their experiences.

Hari Om...

kindly give me a day for Verse 15 pls..
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:49 am

Hari Om..

Apologies for being late.

My reflections on verse 15.


Verse 15:

Synopsis: Krishna is reassuring Arjuna that the Path of Action or Karma Yoga is not a new theory, that it was always present and seekers have always practised Karma Yoga, Knowing the Truth about Bhagawan. So Arjuna too should adopt this method to attain Union with Brahman, or attain Liberation, or Know God – all meaning the same.

The call here is specifically to Arjuna to do what he has to do in the spirit of Karma Yoga. And this lesson is being given in 3 parts:

a. Know that you are Brahman
b. That You the Atma (Brahman) is never tainted by the actions the BMI performs as long as the actions are performed without ego.
c. Duty has to be done and since time immemorial, great seekers have abided by duty in this spirit.

So once we know that the Self is me, or I am the Self, this knowing transforms.

Knowing, is in effect the un-knowing or the unlearning of what we currently assume to be knowledge. What we currently hold as truths are in the realm of avidya, where objects are accorded reality, relationships are accorded sanctity....continuity; but this knowing will reveal that the objects we ‘saw’ and the relationships we experienced were a dream, unreal and we will actually ‘wake up’ to a transformed understanding. . so that old doubts are irrelevant.

Example, for all his life Karna kept wondering who is my mother. But he was being brought up by charioteer Radhe, so he came to be known as Radheya and he was Karna, sood-putra or charioteer Radhe’s son. But he knew his real mother was somebody else so he (must have) wondered who she was, why she was absent, what she may look like, what is her current life like.....Then one day Kunti meets him in a remote spot and reveals to him that he is her first born, that he is a Pandav. Once this truth is revealed to him, Karna’s doubts stop. He then knew, KNEW he was Kuntiputra, Kaunteya, son of Kunti, a Pandav, the eldest, brother of Yudhisthir, Bhim, Arjun etc...The knowledge ‘I am Radheya’ is transformed into ‘I am Kaunteya’ emphatically. He knew. Thereafter this KNOWING is irreversible, complete, without doubt.

The KNOWING of Brahman is exactly like this. Exactly. Irreversible knowing. And not an iota of doubt.

This Knowing is what every seeker is seeking. The theory has been stated by Krishna. Shraddha should be had in this declaration and commitment to Karma Yoga should begin post haste.

Knowing that I am Brahman, and thus knowing that I do not have agency for actions, desire and its cousins such as ego, attachment, want etc vanish as null and void. And if this has been understood, of what use ego and desire? It will be absent. And therefore if Arjuna is seeking to Know his Self, then he must simply commit to Karma Yoga, to selfless actions, to arpana buddhi, for this is what every seeker since time immemorial has been doing.

Thus Krishna is indicating that Karma Yoga is not any new theory He is propounding, that it has always been the means to the Goal. And they stand as examples of successful seekers who found their Goal.

Hari Om.
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:19 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Thank you all for sharing your understanding of verses 14&15. Continuing our study....

Verse for posting :

16 - Murugan
17 - Sathiavathiji

HGRR Excerpts :

Terms and definitions 3 & 4, Thoughts and concepts 15 - Vignesh

Selections for Reflection - 6 - Ganeshji

Regards

murugan
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:28 pm

Hari OM
verse - 16
kim karma kim-akarmeti kavayo-py-atra mohitah
tatte karma pravaksyami yaj-jnatva moksyase-subhat

kim- what, karma-action, kim- what, akarma- inaction, iti - thus, kavayah - sages, api- also, atra- in this, mohitah- ( are) deluded, tat- that, te- to you, karma-actions, pravaksyami- (I) shall teach, yat - which, jnatva-having known, moksyase -(you) shall be liberated, asubhat - from evil.

What is action? What is inaction? As to this, even the "wise" are deluded. Therefore, I shall teach you " action" ( the nature of action and inaction), knowing which, you shall be liberated from the evil ( of Samsara- the wheel of birth and death).

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sganesh0112 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:18 pm

Hari Om and Pranams!

V.17 Karmanohyapi Boddhhavyam Boddhhavyam cha vikarmanah
Akarmanascha Boddhhavyam Gahana Karmano Gati


Karmanah – Right actions, api-for verily, Boddhhavyam – should be known, cha – also, vikarmanah – forbidden actions, Akarmanah-Inaction, Boddhhavyam – should be known, cha-also, Gahana – imponderable, Karmano gati – Nature(path) of action.


“For verily (the true nature) of ‘right action’ should be known; also (that) of ‘forbidden( or unlawful)action’ and of ‘inaction’; imponderable is the nature (path) of action.”

Hari Om!
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:04 pm

Hari OM

Selection for reflection

6 Life means activity. Where activity has ended death has entered. In active life alone can we progress or deteriorate. A stagnant pool of water decays and soon gets putrefied, whereas the flowing water of river ever keeps itself fresh,pure and clean. Life being dynamic, it cannot even for a moment cease to function. Complete cessation from activities is impossible so long as life exists.Activity, therefore, is the very corner stone of life. ( 4.17).

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby vignesh » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:06 am

Terms and Definitions

3 Who is a ‘kavi’?
The word ‘kavi’, now a days mainly used for poets was the name for Rsis, the seers of Upanisadic declarations. Any inspired man, recognizing and expressing a truth that was noble and immortal, was called a ‘kavi’. ( 4.16).
4 Differentiate between ‘karma’ and ‘vikarma’.
Constructive activities that contribute towards the evolution of the individual are termed ‘karma’. Karma can be of three kinds: nitya- constant duties, naimittika – special duties on special occasions, and kamya –work purposeful and self-determined for winning a desirable result or reward. Destructive activities( nisiddha) are those that are totally condemned by the sastras, because they tend to de-evolve the individual, and are termed ’vikarma’. (4.17).

Thoughts and Concepts.

15 “What is action? What is inaction? As to this even the ‘wise’ are deluded.” Explain.
‘Action’ commonly means movement of the limbs with relation to things in the outer world, and ‘inaction’ means a state of existence wherein there is total cessation of such vigorous and conscious movements. This is the popular definition of ‘ action’ and ‘ inaction’ which, no doubt, is quite acceptable as far as the everyday activities of life are concerned. But from the philosophical stand point, the concepts and features of both’action’ and ‘inaction’ change.
For purposes of self development, when we consider ‘action’, it is not to be valued merely by observing its manifested qualities, but we must also take into consideration the unmanifested but subtly-working motives behind every action. An action itself cannot be considered either good or bad. It is the motive behind it which determines the quality of the action. Just as the beauty of a fruit is not the last word for its edibility but depends upon its contents, so too a beautiful action in itself could be a poisonous act of criminality if the motive behind it is low and vicious.
Therefore, it is said that in discriminating between what is’action’ and what is ‘ inaction’ ‘even the poet-seers of old are confused’. ( 4.16)

Regards
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sganesh0112 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:20 pm

Hari Om and Pranams!

Here's summary of verse 16 and 17.

verse - 16
kim karma kim-akarmeti kavayo-py-atra mohitah
tatte karma pravaksyami yaj-jnatva moksyase-subhat

kim- what, karma-action, kim- what, akarma- inaction, iti - thus, kavayah - sages, api- also, atra- in this, mohitah- ( are) deluded, tat- that, te- to you, karma-actions, pravaksyami- (I) shall teach, yat - which, jnatva-having known, moksyase -(you) shall be liberated, asubhat - from evil.

What is action? What is inaction? As to this, even the "wise" are deluded. Therefore, I shall teach you " action" ( the nature of action and inaction), knowing which, you shall be liberated from the evil ( of Samsara- the wheel of birth and death).

Verse-17
Karmanohyapi Boddhhavyam Boddhhavyam cha vikarmanah
Akarmanascha Boddhhavyam Gahana Karmano Gati

Karmanah – Right actions, api-for verily, Boddhhavyam – should be known, cha – also, vikarmanah – forbidden actions, Akarmanah-Inaction, Boddhhavyam – should be known, cha-also, Gahana – imponderable, Karmano gati – Nature(path) of action.

“For verily (the true nature) of ‘right action’ should be known; also (that) of ‘forbidden( or unlawful)action’ and of ‘inaction’; imponderable is the nature (path) of action.”

Selection for reflection

6 Life means activity. Where activity has ended death has entered. In active life alone can we progress or deteriorate. A stagnant pool of water decays and soon gets putrefied, whereas the flowing water of river ever keeps itself fresh,pure and clean. Life being dynamic, it cannot even for a moment cease to function. Complete cessation from activities is impossible so long as life exists.Activity, therefore, is the very corner stone of life. ( 4.17).

Terms and Definitions

3 Who is a ‘kavi’?
The word ‘kavi’, now a days mainly used for poets was the name for Rsis, the seers of Upanisadic declarations. Any inspired man, recognizing and expressing a truth that was noble and immortal, was called a ‘kavi’. ( 4.16).
4 Differentiate between ‘karma’ and ‘vikarma’.
Constructive activities that contribute towards the evolution of the individual are termed ‘karma’. Karma can be of three kinds: nitya- constant duties, naimittika – special duties on special occasions, and kamya –work purposeful and self-determined for winning a desirable result or reward. Destructive activities( nisiddha) are those that are totally condemned by the sastras, because they tend to de-evolve the individual, and are termed ’vikarma’. (4.17).

Thoughts and Concepts.

15 “What is action? What is inaction? As to this even the ‘wise’ are deluded.” Explain.
‘Action’ commonly means movement of the limbs with relation to things in the outer world, and ‘inaction’ means a state of existence wherein there is total cessation of such vigorous and conscious movements. This is the popular definition of ‘ action’ and ‘ inaction’ which, no doubt, is quite acceptable as far as the everyday activities of life are concerned. But from the philosophical stand point, the concepts and features of both’action’ and ‘inaction’ change.
For purposes of self development, when we consider ‘action’, it is not to be valued merely by observing its manifested qualities, but we must also take into consideration the unmanifested but subtly-working motives behind every action. An action itself cannot be considered either good or bad. It is the motive behind it which determines the quality of the action. Just as the beauty of a fruit is not the last word for its edibility but depends upon its contents, so too a beautiful action in itself could be a poisonous act of criminality if the motive behind it is low and vicious.
Therefore, it is said that in discriminating between what is’action’ and what is ‘ inaction’ ‘even the poet-seers of old are confused’. ( 4.16)

Hari Om!

Ganesh
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:04 pm

Hari OM
Thank you Ganeshji for the compilation. Let us all post our individual reflections, discussion points and study notes on these two verses.
pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby murugans61 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:46 pm

Hari OM

The spiritual aspirant abandons egoism and desire, but he does not give up karma. The seekers of freedom walked this way through ages and this principle has not been enunciated newly for the sake of Arjuna. However, he was perplexed on this issue. The verse 16 explains that there was nothing strange in it.

What scriptures advocate as auspicious work is designated as action; and what they prohibit as harmful and inauspicious work is described as forbiden action. What the individual soul views as his personal effort is karma,action. The unfailing cosmic function of the supreme Lord is Akarma, inaction.

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:20 pm

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Stanzas 16 and 17 alngwith the Thoughts and Concepts are self explanatory. What is karma, what is vikarma, what action should one take, what should be avoided has been explained in these two stanzas. Throughout our life, we are continuously doing some action or the other, actions are inevitable, some bodily ones are involuntary too. But what we do daily can be classified in nitya, naimittik and kamya categories, daily, sometimes and those with some goal or desire in mind. All those directed at something constructive and not harming anyone should be performed. But this is quite tricky. The intention behind the action should be seen to determine whether it is desirable or not.

Regards

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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby vignesh » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:03 am

What is action and what is actionlessness. In this regard, even sages are deluded. By stating this fact, Lord Krishna gives confidence to Arjuna and promises him to teach the nature of action, which will free him from samsara.
Since the nature of action is subtle, Lord says that one should clearly know about the prescribed action, prohibited action and inaction.

regards
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby sganesh0112 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:50 pm

Hari Om and Pranams!

Continuing from the last verse, in which the Blessed Lord said “You too perform action, as did the ancients if the olden times”, here in the next two verses the Lord clarifies what is action or inaction in the next verse –

v-16 – “ What is action? What is inaction? As to this even the ‘wise’ are deluded. Therefore, I shall teach you ‘action’ (the nature of action and inaction), knowing which, you shall be liberated from the evil (of samsara – the wheel of birth and death)”
We all understand that the accepted common and popular meaning of action is movement of the body and its limbs, and the absence of this is inaction. But from the philosophical and self-development point of view, an action is to be considered based on both its manifested and un-manifested motives behind it. An action is considered good or bad based on the motives subtly working behind it. Every day we see a number of instances in which we are able to only see those actions which we ‘see’ as good but since we are not aware of the intentions with which the particular person is doing it. Even great visionaries sometimes are confused in judging an action as good or bad based on its manifested shape without knowing the unmanifested causes. The Lord further goes to explain the difference between the action and inaction as --

v.17 – “for verily ( the true nature) of ‘right action’ should be known; also(that ) of ‘forbidden (or unlawful) action’ and of ‘inaction’; imponderable is the nature (path) of action”

Life is constituted of moments of activity and moments of inactivity. Inactivity does neither cause progress nor deterioration. Activity can be of two types – right actions or karma and actions to be avoided or vikarma. Karma further can be classified into three types, Nitya karma (daily duties), Naimattika karma (duties on special occasions) and Kamya karma(desire-prompted duties). Even with these three classifications done beautifully by the Blessed Lord, it would not be easy for an ordinary man to distinguish one from the other and that is why the nature or path of action is considered imponderable.

pranams
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:25 pm

Hari Om,


Gita Chapter 4
Verse 16 and 17

Verse 16: Here Krishna teaches the nature of action (and inaction) knowing which a jiva can be released from the effects of samsara.

That is, once we know what is right action, we can ensure that our actions are not of the quality that bind.

The genesis of this thought is Karma Yoga. Therefore in defining duty and karma, people get deluded.

At a physical level, movement of limbs is also action. Like raising hand to drive a fly away from the nose.

At a philosophical level, physical action is the result of a mental action which is important for self development. This is the one we have to focus on and contemplate upon.

Therefore, action is infact the intention that precedes action. The motive behind the action, and not its form.

Krishna says from this arises right action and wrong action. Therefore the good or bad, the right or wrong is to be applied to the motive prompting action. And often this motive is couched in self justifications.

Uniquely, therefore an action in itself is not to be judged as good or bad – it is the motive that will decide.

Verse 17: Here Krishna says the true nature of right action has to be known as also its cousins such as wrong action and inaction.

Krishna classifies all action into Right, Wrong and Inaction, each which have a motive which is the determinant. Therefore the mystery is that, action includes inaction as well, so that inaction too is action under some circumstances. Therefore inaction is non performance of forvbidden actions and the non performance of forbidden actions IS action, and translates to right action!
At every stage we have to act, it is a part of being alive. Engaging with life is done through action.

So its not merely knowing the difference between action, forbidden action and inaction, but knowing all action IN RELATION TO THE LORD.

Since the postulate of Karma Yoga has already been explained in Ch 2, we now need to come to understand what is action done in relation the Lord. That will translate as ‘actions done for Him, without egocentric desire.

When Krishna says that even the wise are deluded, He is referring to us, the so-called wise, who have a wrong interpretation for action. Therefore the call is for us to examine our action before performing it. The intention behind ‘examining action’ is: ensuring we always create a pause between thought and action so that we can look at any motive underlying and probe this for arpana buddhi or svaartha.

Uniquely today’s naam in Vishnusahasranaam studied praandah, the one energising, giving the strength or ability to do. This is not a coincidence it would seem but the Agranee Bhagawan shepherding us towards synergistic understanding of all that He is teaching us.

So knowing Him to be the energy behind our action, it will be a good thing to see Him between the thought and the action.
Gurudev brings in one more classification: Constructive and destructive activities. Cosntructive activities would be all those actions that are conducive to the yagna of life, for greater good. Destructive actions would be the very anti thesis of yagna.

In the net analysis, all constructive actions which add value to the yagna of life, which are not contradictory of the Universal Law, or which are not forbidden by the shastras.

Within these come some other actions that the shastras require us to perform, such as the Nitya karmas and the naimittika or special duties) karmas.

If we recognise Bhagawan as Pranadaah residing in the space between thought or desire and action, then we will be able to examine the motive behind each and if such motive is contributory to the yagna of life, we must perform it; if not by not performing it, we have already acted.

Hari Om
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:14 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Let us proceed in our studies:

Verse 18-22

Verse 18, 19 - Vighneshaji
Verse 20 - Sathiavathiji
Verse 21 - Uma
Verse 22 - Ganeshaji


HGRR

Terms and Definitions - 5, 7 - Vighneshaji
6 - Uma
Thoughts and Concepts -

16 - Vighneshaji
17, 18 - Uma

Selections for Reflection -

7, 8, 9 - Sathiavathiji

Verses for Memorisation - For all - Verse 18, 19, 22

Regards

uma
uma
 
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby meera » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:18 pm

Hari Om..

Sorry Uma, there is a bit left to be said about verses 16 and 17; you might like to re-post your post after a day please, so that it is not lost.


When Krishna says that even the wise are deluded, He is referring to us, the so-called wise, who have a wrong interpretation for action.

Why does Krishna say so? Some reflections here please.

People occupy responsible roles as parents, teachers, police persons, heads of government, of companies, as priests in temples....and they act based on an understanding that their actions are for the good of the students or employees or devotees or praja.

Often they act because the office they occupy has opportunity for power and profit which they enjoy more than they do the duties it enjoins upon them. So a minister takes away government land for his family, uses government aircraft for a quick darshan at Tirupati, uses office staff to do the leg work for his son’s wedding, destroys evidence on a crime in which a family or friend is embroiled....these are not actions they do ‘based on an understanding that their actions are for the good of the students or employees or devotees or praja.’ These are out and out criminal actions, actions of dishonesty which classify under ‘forbiden actions, under ‘asatya’

But the reference is to actions which a person does under a misunderstanding that he is doing right, such as (examples)

* Killing daughter for marrying outside community ‘thinking that he is saving the community from adharma’.
*Aborting a child BECAUSE it is a female child thinking, ‘I am saving her from being a burden’
* Forcing a child to marry first and study later, because the parent thinks this way child will not go astray.
* Forcing a child to learn subjects that are socially uplifting for the parent’s image in society or because ‘I am a doctor, so you also must be a doctor’ theory.
* Spending huge amounts of money on one’s own or one’s child’s wedding ‘because a child’s marriage must be celebrated with a lot of fanfare’

If we examine, these are all ‘wise’ people, literate, with the right opportunity to know right conduct and adopt sensible values, occupying offices of responsibility and having the right opportunity to make a difference to life. These are the wise-people Krishna refers to.

In the context of the Gita, He is referring to Arjuna, who has studied under the best teachers, belongs to a most exalted family of governors and statesmen, with enough wealth that has saved him from the oppression of a life of scarcity, with a peer group both at home and in the workplace (palace ministers) to know the role of dharma, what it means and how it is to be understood.

There is a good saying among army men – to the effect that a country's alertness is known by its preparedness for war during peacetime. Likewise, a seeker should understand the meaning of action so that during ‘war’ (conflicting situations) he is already capable of right action. Unlike Arjuna who crumbled and broke.

Yet we have Prince Rama, who soon after he came back from a pilgrimage, likely at the age of 13 or 15, went into silence and non-clinical depression over many unsolved questions in his mind, locked himself up in his room and refused to come out, until when Sage Vishwamitra came by wanting the Prince, who he knew was an avatar of the Lord, to come and help him rid the forests of demons and evil people. When he was called to come and meet the Sage or go with him, Rama refused saying, first answer my doubts.

Sage Vasishtha then sat and answered every of his questions, explaining with delight and patience, how a jiva lives this life and then unites (yoga) with the Lord, what then went on to become a whole text name Yoga Vasishtha. That is one example of peacetime preparedness, because then when Rama went with Sage Vishwamitra, the forests were cleansed without any hesitation or doubt over 'should I or should I not?'

The label of ‘wise people’ may be earned after we have understood what is right action. Will be equally good if people married and had children after knowing what is right conduct and right action. If people donned leadership hats after knowing what is right conduct. If people assumed responsibility for the young people after having understood right action first.

Hari Om
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Re: Gita Study Group : Chapter 4 : Dnyan Karma Sannyas Yoga

Postby uma » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:39 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Thanks Meera, for such nice explanation.

Repeating the earlier post -

Hari Om. Pranam.

Let us proceed in our studies:

Verse 18-22

Verse 18, 19 - Vighneshaji
Verse 20 - Sathiavathiji
Verse 21 - Uma
Verse 22 - Ganeshaji


HGRR

Terms and Definitions -

5, 7 - Vighneshaji
6 - Uma

Thoughts and Concepts -

16 - Vighneshaji
17, 18 - Uma

Selections for Reflection -

7, 8, 9 - Sathiavathiji

Verses for Memorisation - For all - Verse 18, 19, 22
uma
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:21 am

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