Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds Chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.
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Bringing back the much enjoyed open discussion on the Gita, for general public. Proceeds chapter and verse wise. For the keen student seeking a deep understanding of Krishna’s counsel! Registration necessary.

Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:26 am

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Let us now study Stanzas 13-16 from the Chapter 5, Yoga of True Renunciation - Karma Sanyas Yoga.

The current theme is : Relationship with Knowledge and Ignorance.

Kindly post:

Verse 13 Uma
Verse 14 Ganeshaji
Verse 15 Sathyavathiji
Verse 16 Sathyavathiji

HGRR-

Terms and Definitions 5, 6 - Muruganji
7, 8, 9 - Uma


Thoughts and Concepts
13 - Vighneshaji

Selections for Reflection
9,10 - Ganeshaji

Verses for memorisation:
13, 14, 15 for all
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sganesh0112 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:34 pm

Hari Om and Pranams!

V-14 Na kartrutvam na karmaani lokasya srujati prabhuh |
Na karma-phala-samyogam svabhaavastu pravartate ||


Na – not, kartrutvam – agency, na – not , karmaani – actions, lokasya – for this world, srujati – creates, prabhuh – the Lord, na – not, karma-phala-samyogam – union with fruits of actions, svabhavah – nature, tu-but, pravartate – leads to action

Neither agency nor actions, does the Lord, create for the world, nor union with the fruits of actions. But it is Nature that acts.


SELECTIONS FOR REFLECTIONS:

9. The Eternal-Principle underlying life’s activities cannot be conceived of as taking any active note of or interest in the finite creation. From the Infinite standpoint, the finite exists not. 5-15

10. The unveiling of Truth is a process of the removal of ignorance and not a creation of knowledge and, therefore, it is only an act of re-discovery and not a creative achievement. 5-15

Pranams

Ganesh
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sathiavathi » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:21 am

HARI OM

VERSE-15

Nadatte kasyaccitpapam na caiva sukrtam vibhuh
Ajnanenavrtam jnanam tena muhyanti jantavah.

na adatte-never accepts; kasyacit-of anyone;

papam- the sins; sukrtam ca na-nor either the virtues;

vibhuh- the omnipresent ultimate consciousness;

jnanam- actual knowledge; avrtam-is covered;

ajnanena-by ignorance; tena eva- and because of that;

jantavah- the living entities; muhyanti- are deluded.

The omni present ultimate consciousness never accepts the sins nor either the virtues of any one;actual knowledge is covered by ignorance and because

of that living entities are deluded.


VERSE-16

jNANENA TU TAD AJNANAM ESAM NASITAM ATMANAH

TESAM ADITYAVAT JNANAM PRAKASAYATI TATPARAM.

tu-but; yesam-of those whom; tat ajnanam-this ignorance; nasitam-has been destroyed; atmanah jnanena- by the knowledge of the self;tat jnanam -that knowledge;
tesam- of those persons; dityavat-like the rising sun;
prakasyati-illuminated; tat param-by the ultimate truth.

Of those whom this ignorance has been destroyed by the knowledge of the self that knowledge of those persons is like the rising son is illuminatted by the ultimate truth.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:18 pm

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Posting Verse 13:

सर्वकर्माणि मनसा संन्यस्याते सुखम् वशी |
नवद्वारे पुरे देही नैव कुर्वन्न कारयन् ||13||

Sarva karmani mansa saNyasyaste sukham vashee
navadware puram dehee naiva kurvanna kaarayan

सर्व कर्माणि - all actions, मनसा - by the mind, संन्यस्य - having renounced, आस्ते - rests, सुखम् - happily, वशी - the Self controlled, नव- द्वारे - in the nine gated, पुरे -in the city, देही - the embodied, न - not, एव -even, कुर्वन्न acting, न- not, कारयन् - causing to act

13. Mentally remouncing all actions and fully self controlled, the "embodied" one rests happily in teh nin gate city, neitther acting nor causing others (body and senses ) to act.


HGRR :

Terms and Conditions

7. Who lives in the "city of nine gates"?

Atman (5.13)

8. what is "svabhava"?

"Nature" or "maya" is termed as "svabhava" (5.14)

9. What does the term "vibhu" mean ?

The term "vibhu" means "all pervading". (5.15)

Regards
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby murugans61 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:05 pm

Hari Om,

5. What is the city of nine gates?
Body
6. What are the nine gates?
The body is considered a fortress city having nine main gates, which are the nine apertures in the physical structure, seven of them on the face( two eyes, two nostrils, two ears and one mouth) and the two apertures on the trunk - the genital organ and the excretory organ

Pranams
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby vignesh » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:51 pm

13) "Knowledge reveals the supreme Brahman like the sun." Explain.

It is the experience of all that during the monsoon we do not see the sun for days together, and we, in our hasty conclusions, cry out : "The sun has been covered by the clouds".

When we reconsider this statement, it is not very difficult for us to understand that the sun cannot be covered by a tiny bit of a cloud. Also, the region of the cloud is far removed from the center of the Universe where the sun , in its infinite glory, revels as the one without a second. Minute humans observing from the surface of the globe with their tiny eyes experience that the glorious orb of the sun is being veiled because of a wisp of cloud. Even a mighty mountain can be veiled from our vision if we put our tiny little finger very near our eyes!

Similarly, the ego (jiva) looking upto the Atman finds that ignorance is enveloping the infinite. This ignorance is not in Truth, just as the clouds are never in the sun. The finite ignorance is certainly a limited factor compared to the infinitude of Reality. And yet, the mist of Self-forgetfulness that hangs in the chambers of the heart gives the ego the false notion that the Spiritual Reality is enveloped by ignorance. When this ignorance is removed, the Self becomes manifest, just as when the cloud has moved away the sun becomes manifest.

Also, to see the sun we need no other light; to experience the Self we need no other experience. The Self is Awareness. It is Consciousness. To become conscious of Consciousness, we need no separate consciousness; to know knowledge we need no knowledge other than Knowledge; Knowledge is the very faculty of knowing. Similarly, when the ego rediscovers the Self, it becomes the Self.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby meera » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:02 am

Hari Om...

Sorry for walking in after a long time...

I wanted to understand what is the role of this Chapter Five. Hence some reflections here that will help further study of this chapter.

In a few days I will catch up to where you all are. And see if I can add value.

Here are some thoughts:


Chapter Five - Why

An understanding of why Krishna is talking about renouncing action in this chapter. How does this take off from the four chapters we studied so far and how does this link to the rest of the chapters we will be studying.

For this we need to see how Krishna’s words meld with the intention of the Vedas.

There are three main sections to the Vedas – Mantra-s, Brahmana-s, Aranyaka-s.

The mantra portion is a poetic expression of great recognition of the beauty that nature is. It is therefore a collection of metric texts (poetry committed to meter) that glorifies the expression of nature, presentation of nature. This was early man’s way of glorifying the Lord and thus recognise the role of the Supreme Divinity.

Then comes a stage in the jiva’s evolution when he wants to use his hands and limbs to put to expression that same mantra. This is a set of ritualistic worship of the Lord as he (the jiva) understands His representation on earth. This section is Brahmana-s. Often these rituals are explained as means to attain material needs such as rain, son, crop, cattle. Adapted to modern times, they are seen as resulting in the attainment of career success, wealth, fame, name...

Until now, what we saw was a shubbechha (auspicious intention) prompted by the glory of nature expressing as a desire to worship Him, the Lord, as seen in nature. Grateful for the heat of the sun, the food of the earth, the coolness of the breeze, the water of the oceans/rain, man wishes to thank the Unknown.So the sun, moon, planets, trees etc were worshipped and each of these deified by man as a devata, brings results – the fulfilment of his material needs.

Then man reaches a stage where he either has no more needs, or has needs but wants nothing anymore. He is satiated, or vairaagyam follows. Or a deep desire to give up the external pursuits and instead seek the Lord within by inquiring into one’s own existence and purpose, such as Who am I? This formed the Aranyaka-s section of the Veda-s, and typified by the stage where man gave up the world and retreated into the forest (symbolic) OR gave up the secular life to pursue the spiritual (more identifiable by us). These Aranyaka-s are made up of the Upanishads where worship (called upasana) is worship of the Lord for the sake of the Lord and not for any desire fulfillment.

The Veda-s were the source book of guidance at a time when thought was suited to the stiff prescriptions of the Veda-s. When Veda-Vyaasa compiled the Gita, it was the guide book for a man of a newer era, a man who had matured through time (as a civilisation maybe...) – what Gurudev in his classic metaphor compares to the maturing of a flower into its fruit, whereby the flower is not destroyed but “grown to its fulfilment in the fruit.” (BG Ch 5 intro)

In just the same way, the reaching of the Gita by a seeker is a maturing of his sadhana from ritualistic worship to desireless worship. We must be appreciative (and not critical) of ritualistic worship which many are prone to condemn as foolish. Maybe we perform rituals (in our early stage of sadhana) with an intention to gain something, success, house, cattle...because we desire them and the vasanas for those exist in us and act up. So we worship and we attain their fulfillment.

But in the process we also gain a deeper grounding of our relationship with a Lord who we come to see as benevolent, kind, generous, loving and giving and punishing and as the karmaphala daata. This very worship, once it matures, drops off the desire for using the karmindriyas to worship and evolves to worship with the mind (eg, Upasana via Aranyakas), where the seeker seeks silence, non-action, and a contemplative abidance and being with the inner self. [So the ritualistic, idol-based saguna worship, matures to a gradual desire to shut the eyes, as if seeking a nirguna, niraakaara Bhagawan, where visual worship is not desired but a silent contemplation, a desireless or non-desire-based worship using the mahavaakyas of the Upanishads.]

If we examine this, we will see a gradual maturing from desire to action to not-action. The Mantras express desire, the Brahmanas express Activity using Karmindriyas, the Aranyakas evolve to not-action.

This is exactly Krishna’s process too via His Gita which He tries to explain to Arjuna in Chapter 5, except, using a logic that leads up from Karma Yoga or action which is performed as ‘worship of the Lord’, as an offering to the Lord – maybe, an equivalent of the Brahmanas. And KY itself is prescribed at a stage where high tamas reigns in the heart/mind of the individual. It is KY that kickstarts the tamasic individual into an active one.

It is the shift from tamas to rajas that KY uses to describe true activity. This constitutes activity that one must do (Niyama-s) , activity that one must not do (Yama-s, not doing is also action therefore), which together form the foundation of our spiritual evolution, ethical precepts if we may call them that, as in kindergarten where the fundamental A,B,C is taught without which Grade I is impossible. [In a way we may say that his kshatriyahood too was just the starting point as if precepts that governed Arjuna the warrior kshatriya – a set of what he may do and may not do. Later Krishna will tell him to go beyond kshatriyahood to the dharma underlying it.]

And to urge Arjuna towards perfection, Krishna began Ch 2 by describing the Man of Equipoise, the Sthitapragnya. If that man is to be Arjuna’s idol, goal – just as the eye of the fish was during the Draupadi Swayamvara -- then to get there he needs to first apply action with the right attitude, then give up action also with the right attitude, but also know the difference.
Action is the pole of the pole-vaulter. You use this to attain critical height in your sadhana. Then action has to be dropped......

That means take up activity intelligently. Until now Arjuna fought a battle because maybe he saw it as a niyama, a thing he must do. Now he must do that niyama with intelligence. This is maturing from flower to fruit. That is, go beyond and examine the intention of an action and stay with it. If war was being fought to protect dharma as a kshatriya, then the intention behind an action becomes protection of dharma and not kshatriyahood.

Thus if we track where Krishna and Arjuna have reached so far, we will see that in Ch 2 Krishna began by detailing KY and simply asking Arjuna to act without an eye on the results [ pick up the pole because you need to practise how to vault over it. You have to learn to use the pole, not examine its quality, wood, formation, smoothness....just pick up the pole and work with it to gain poise; likewise action is a means not something to get attached to]

...........and went on to show that a Sthitapragnya was naturally meditative, was not caught in a mix of thoughts and ideas, and as a result did not feel anger, hatred, anxiety etc while performing an action. [Actually Arjuna had attained this during his focus on the eye of the fish...] Very simply Arjuna should not see death and dying as the culmination of action in war but go beyond results. Death is a result. An outcome; but the real lesson lies beyond it.

And Krishna says there is no endeavour better than one for the protection of dharma, righteousness.

Now this redefines for Arjuna the purpose of battle. The dying of a kin in battle is not the killing of a kin, but the protection of dharma....

This Krishna begins in Ch 2 where He explains the immortality of the soul. “Therefore you (Arjuna) should not lament for any being...”

Next He talks about doing duty, since fairness is more important – “there is no endeavour better than one for the protection of dharma, righteousness.” Therefore do your duty (action) and die in battle – and gain heaven; or win, and gain the world. Both ways, action is required. And here Krishna suggests performing with an equipoised mind – desireless-ly.

This is how Krishna delivers the Yoga of Action, or the science of action without desire for fruit/outcome. This is the starting point of understanding action.

Then in Chapter three, Krishna leads up to saying that (therefore) regardless of anything else, performing one’s duty is supreme. Why they must be performed, what happens when not performed, what happens when performed...
Arjuna was keener to gain wisdom and wanted a path.

To that Krishna said wisdom cannot be attained without performing action or by avoiding action.
Thus Krishna brought Arjuna once again to the realms of Activity and Action.

But now in Ch 3 Krishna suggested performing these actions selflessly, as worship (again drawing from the Aranyakas). If Tamas can be resolved with KY, then in action itself lies the genesis for Rajas too. For rajas is what promotes desire and selfishness, which are again products of the senses and mind. (Hence ego).

So Krishna brings in the attitude of awareness while performing action – this leads up to selfless action – and thus to action not for selfish ego-led desire, but action for greater good.

In so preaching, Krishna vociferously denounces renunciation at the stage of life Arjuna is. For Arjuna wished to renounce and take sannyaas.

Whereas Krishna said if spiritual wisdom is what you want, then action is the route. If you are clear Truth is what you want, spiritual height is what you seek, then Action that is selfless is the action you need, to attain that Spiritual Wisdom. So He tells Arjuna who was on the brink of dropping everything and taking to the forest.

So Chapter 4 then leads up to how to make Action the means to Knowledge or the other way round: how to make Knowledge the fruit of Action. For this Krishna tells Arjuna to treat all of life as the supreme Yagya, where he acts for greater good, gives all he can, takes only that which is proportionate to his contribution and not more...

By performing action selflessly, with the spirit of a huge consulting assignment where every player has a role to play and contribute towards the completion of the assignment, Bhagawan said Arjuna must fight the battle at Kurukshetra with the spirit of Yagna, designed to deliver dharma, without any desire (even desire to save/protect his kin and teachers and grandfather was counted as desire filled action)....

In this manner till the end of chapter 4 we see how to convert action into a Yagna.

How to use action to attain Knowledge.

Until here we dwell/delve in the Brahmanas, the worship of the Lord using our actions. Karmindriyas.

After this Krishna will show Arjuna how to polevault into contemplative meditation on the Lord as in the Aranyakas..... where we will drop the pole and then release ourselves on the wings of faith into the Lord’s realm.... (That will be Ch 6)

To understand all this, we study Chapter Five, where Krishna differentiates between renouncing action and performing action selflessly-desirelessly. Yet He will show that both lead to Knowledge. That performing action selflessly than renouncing it will aid in dissolving the ego....and attaining Knowledge. And more...

Hari Om..
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sganesh0112 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:55 pm

Hari Om! Pranams!

Thanks a million Meeraji for an excellent summary on the purport of Chapter V. Here the Sadhaka has analysed herself and in turn inspires others to really think/meditate again and again on each and every aspect for the possible fruition of Sadhana. May it set a glowing example for us to follow.

Hari Om!

In the Service of the Lord!
Ganesh
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:19 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Welcome Back Meera! And many thanks for such an excellent summary.
Hope to see you here regularly again :)

Regards
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:20 pm

Hari Om. Pranam.

Here are the verses 13-16 for our discussion. Please post your thoughts,
your study notes, reflections on these verses.

Offering this garland of verses to you O Krishna with Love from all of
us...please help us in our studies.
============================================================
सर्वकर्माणि मनसा संन्यस्याते सुखम् वशी |
नवद्वारे पुरे देही नैव कुर्वन्न कारयन् ||13||

Sarva karmani mansa saNyasyaste sukham vashee
navadware puram dehee naiva kurvanna kaarayan

सर्व कर्माणि - all actions, मनसा - by the mind, संन्यस्य - having renounced, आस्ते - rests, सुखम् - happily, वशी - the Self controlled, नव- द्वारे - in the nine gated, पुरे -in the city, देही - the embodied, न - not, एव -even, कुर्वन्न acting, न- not, कारयन् - causing to act

13. Mentally remouncing all actions and fully self controlled, the "embodied" one rests happily in teh nin gate city, neitther acting nor causing others (body and senses ) to act.


न कर्तृत्वम् न कर्माणि लोकस्य सृजति प्रभु:|
न कर्मफलसंयोगं स्वभावस्तु प्रवर्तते ||14||

Na kartrutvam na karmaani lokasya srujati prabhuh |
Na karma-phala-samyogam svabhaavastu pravartate ||

न -Na – not, कर्तृत्वम् -kartrutvam – agency, न-na – not ,कर्माणि- karmaani – actions, लोकस्य-lokasya – for this world, सृजति -srujati – creates, प्रभु:-prabhuh – the Lord, न-na – not, कर्म फल संयोगम्-karma-phala-samyogam – union with fruits of actions, स्वभाव:-svabhavah – nature, तु-tu-but, प्रवर्तते pravartate – leads to action

14. Neither agency nor actions, does the Lord, create for the world, nor union with the fruits of actions. But it is Nature that acts.


नादत्ते कस्यचित्पापं न चैव सुकृतम् विभु: |
अज्ञानेनावृतम् ज्ञानं तेन मुह्यन्ति जन्तव: ||15||

Nadatte kasyaccitpapam na caiva sukrtam vibhuh
Ajnanenavrtam jnanam tena muhyanti jantavah.

न आदत्ते -na adatte-never accepts; कस्यचित्- kasyacit-of anyone; पापम् -papam- the sins; सुकृतं च न -sukrtam ca na-nor either the virtues; विभु:-vibhuh- the omnipresent ultimate consciousness; ज्ञानं- jnanam- actual knowledge; आवृतं-avrtam-is covered;
अज्ञानेन-ajnanena-by ignorance; तेन एव - tena eva- and because of that;जन्तव:- jantavah- the living entities; मुह्यन्ति -muhyanti- are deluded.

15. The omni present ultimate consciousness never accepts the sins nor either the virtues of any one;actual knowledge is covered by ignorance and because of that living entities are deluded.


ज्ञानेन तु तद ज्ञानं येषां नाशितमात्मन:|
तेषामादित्यवज्ज्ञानं प्रकाशयति तत्परं ||16||

jnanena tu tad ajnaanam esham nashitam aatmana:
teshaamdityavajjnaanam prakashayati tatparam

तु -tu-but; येषां - yesam-of those whom;तत् अज्ञानं- tat ajnanam-this ignorance; नाशितं -nasitam-has been destroyed; आत्मन:ज्ञानेन- atmanah jnanena- by the knowledge of the self; तत् ज्ञानं - tat jnanam -that knowledge; तेषां - tesam- of those persons; आदित्यवत- adityavat-like the rising sun; प्रकाशयति -prakasyati-illuminated;तत् परम्- tat param-by the ultimate truth.

16. Of those whom this ignorance has been destroyed by the knowledge of the self that knowledge of those persons is like the rising son is illuminatted by the ultimate truth.

HGRR :

Terms and Conditions

5. What is the city of nine gates?

Body


6. What are the nine gates?

The body is considered a fortress city having nine main gates, which are the nine apertures in the physical structure, seven of them on the face( two eyes, two nostrils, two ears and one mouth) and the two apertures on the trunk - the genital organ and the excretory organ


7. Who lives in the "city of nine gates"?

Atman (5.13)

8. what is "svabhava"?

"Nature" or "maya" is termed as "svabhava" (5.14)

9. What does the term "vibhu" mean ?

The term "vibhu" means "all pervading". (5.15)

Thoughts and Concepts

13) "Knowledge reveals the supreme Brahman like the sun." Explain.

It is the experience of all that during the monsoon we do not see the sun for days together, and we, in our hasty conclusions, cry out : "The sun has been covered by the clouds".

When we reconsider this statement, it is not very difficult for us to understand that the sun cannot be covered by a tiny bit of a cloud. Also, the region of the cloud is far removed from the center of the Universe where the sun , in its infinite glory, revels as the one without a second. Minute humans observing from the surface of the globe with their tiny eyes experience that the glorious orb of the sun is being veiled because of a wisp of cloud. Even a mighty mountain can be veiled from our vision if we put our tiny little finger very near our eyes!

Similarly, the ego (jiva) looking upto the Atman finds that ignorance is enveloping the infinite. This ignorance is not in Truth, just as the clouds are never in the sun. The finite ignorance is certainly a limited factor compared to the infinitude of Reality. And yet, the mist of Self-forgetfulness that hangs in the chambers of the heart gives the ego the false notion that the Spiritual Reality is enveloped by ignorance. When this ignorance is removed, the Self becomes manifest, just as when the cloud has moved away the sun becomes manifest.

Also, to see the sun we need no other light; to experience the Self we need no other experience. The Self is Awareness. It is Consciousness. To become conscious of Consciousness, we need no separate consciousness; to know knowledge we need no knowledge other than Knowledge; Knowledge is the very faculty of knowing. Similarly, when the ego rediscovers the Self, it becomes the Self.


Selections for Reflections:

9. The Eternal-Principle underlying life’s activities cannot be conceived of as taking any active note of or interest in the finite creation. From the Infinite standpoint, the finite exists not. 5-15

10. The unveiling of Truth is a process of the removal of ignorance and not a creation of knowledge and, therefore, it is only an act of re-discovery and not a creative achievement. 5-15

Verses for Memorisation:

सर्वकर्माणि मनसा संन्यस्याते सुखम् वशी |
नवद्वारे पुरे देही नैव कुर्वन्न कारयन् ||13||

Sarva karmani mansa saNyasyaste sukham vashee
navadware puram dehee naiva kurvanna kaarayan


न कर्तृत्वम् न कर्माणि लोकस्य सृजति प्रभु:|
न कर्मफलसंयोगं स्वभावस्तु प्रवर्तते ||14||

Na kartrutvam na karmaani lokasya srujati prabhuh |
Na karma-phala-samyogam svabhaavastu pravartate ||

नादत्ते कस्यचित्पापं न चैव सुकृतम् विभु: |
अज्ञानेनावृतम् ज्ञानं तेन मुह्यन्ति जन्तव: ||15||

Nadatte kasyaccitpapam na caiva sukrtam vibhuh
Ajnanenavrtam jnanam tena muhyanti jantavah.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sathiavathi » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:46 am

HARI OM

VERSE-13

Lord KRISHNA HAS previously expounded that for the one who has not purified his mind karmayoga or the prescribed vedic activities without desire for the

rewards of actions is the best.This is because if the mind is not purified it is impossible to renounce actions internally as well and actions without
desire are superior to renounciation of actions with internal desires. but one who has controlled his senses and purified his mind by discrimination,
renounces all his thoughts and actins that distracts one from Atma tattva or realization of the soul. Such an embodied being completly free from false
ego,devotes himself to the vedic knowledge contentedly residing in the city of nine gates.That is in our physical body which consists of nine gates
seven in the head,being two ears,two eyes,two nostrils and one mouth, two below the navel being the organs of generation and excretion and which
the self controlled person does not identify with.He no longer identifies himself with the body and the senses nor regards them as his own.Therefore,
he neither claims the doership of actions performed by him nor holds himself even indirectly responsible for them.He resides happily in the knowledge of

truth, relegating all actions to the mansion of nine gates, the body with nine openings.

VERSE-14

In this verse lord clarifies that it is not by the will of the god that one performs actions that lead to merit or demerits.By declaring that lord
determines not the doership of man the lord seeks to convey that the doership of men with reference to their actions is not ordained by God. Under
the spell of egotism the ignorant regard themselves as the doer. God does not preordain that one must perform a certain good or evil act;for in that
case the injuctions and interdictions of the scriptures would become meaningless. by declaring that god does not bring about the contact of men
with the fruit of their actions either.The lord signifies that through ignorance men associate themselves with their actions,some by assuming
their leadership through attachment and others by getting attached to their fruits.Had these been preordained by god it would become impossible for men
to shake off the bondage of karma and there would be no chance for his deliverance.The soul has nothing to do with the doership of actions and
has no connection either with the actions or with the fruit.Lord says that all this is being done by prrakrti or nature, appearing in the form of
three gunas- sattva, rajas and tamas.Deluded by egoism they come to regard themselves as the doer and that is why they are associated with actions
as well as with their fruits and get bound by them.The soul has nothing to do with this.

VERSE-15

The supreme lord being completely transcandental and independent to the material existance does not accept the virtue or sin of anyones actions.ALTHOUGH
he energises all their activities he is never affected by them.BUT by the energising principle of all creations natuarally all beings are impelled
according to their own natures by him. If the creater of all beings the supreme lord, the impeller of all beings is not involved in the doership
and activities of embodied being and he is not the recipient of any merits and demerits of the actions of the embodied beings then why is that
embodied beings perform actions that bind them to material existance. The word jnanam or knowledge denoting congnisance is used here. One's
natural congnisance or spiritual discrimination is enveloped in ignorance since time immemorial and the embodied being is infatuated by delution.
Hence they perform sinful activities beleiving them to be good and when they receive severe repercussions as reactions for their sin ful activities they
blame supreme lord for injustice or for being partial and by making offences they sink further in to nescience.

VERSE-16

HERE Lord Krishna is emphasising the fact that the persons whose spiritual knowledge has become awakened do not become deluded in the material existance.
They are able to discriminate between the mundane material knowledge and the divine spiritual knowledge by the knowledge of the Atma or souland
the knowledge of the supreme.THE spiritual knowledge destroys all ignorance and manifest illumination of the supreme lord with in the heart of a human being
just as the sun destroying darkness and illuminate the true nature of all objects. KNowledge dispels ignorance and reveals the true nature of god.
Those who have attained real knowledge never and in no circumstances fall a victim to delution
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:24 am

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Sathyavathiji, as usual has elaborated the principle of these verses very effectively.

One has to realise that body is the abode of Atman. All the actions of the body are inspired by nature ( swabhava) and atman is not the Karta. So when one is not the Karta, where is the question of taking pride for a particular act or getting angry if the act doesn’t fall through?

Self knowledge is as evident as Sun and doesn’t require any previous experience or special qualification to realise it. But we get eluded by Maya (Nature) and ignorance envelopes us.

He is not responsible for any actions, He only energises and Nature (Prakruti) gets all actions done. Our aim should be to realise Him and not become a doll in the hands of Prakruti.
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby vignesh » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:43 pm

In these verses, Lord Krishna discusses the characteristics of a wise man and his wisdom. Since he has has discovered his identity with the pure Self, his nature is the same as that of the Self. In His presence all organs function. Neither does He act nor does He instigate anyone. According to their nature, the organs act and reap results. He is beyond good and evil results.
Still , because of ignorance, one is deluded. When Self ignorance is destroyed by Self - knowledge, Brahman, which is the true nature, becomes evident.

regards
vignesh
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby murugans61 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:47 pm

Hari OM

Karma varies in pattern according to the temperamental differences. There are also forms of karma, such as nitya , naimittilka, kamya, nishiddha and nishkama karmas, distinct in themselves. The yogi does not engage himself in any of the karmas, because he is completely rid of egoism and agency. His reign over the region of BMI lasts until the momentum of prarabdha karma gets exhausted. Even while residing in the body, the consciousness of it and domination over its activities is entirely absent in the yogi.

Due to ignorance the individual self identifies himself with Nature or Prakruti and assumes ownership over karma and its consequences. Actually, all work belongs to Nature and not Atman.

The way Akasa ( space) remains unaffected by the modifications of its components , Iswara remains unaffected by the merits and demerits in beings. Atman seems to take the characteristics of prakruti, while actually it does not, like the way a crystal reflects the object which comes near it. People who are in ignorance impose the traits of prakruti on Atman and get deluded.

Darkness vanishes when the sun rises. Ignorance ceases to be with the dawn of knowledge. As the sunlight reveals things in their true perspective, Self Knowledge or Brahma Jnanam reveals the Reality of Brahman. The knower of Brahman knows he is Brahman and none else.

pranams
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby murugans61 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:39 am

Hari OM

Happy Diwali. Lets pray to The Lord on this day of Festival of Lights to remove the darkness of our ignorance.

Pranams
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:38 am

Hari Om. Pranam to all.

Shubha Deepavali!!

Let us now study Stanzas 17 from the Chapter 5, Yoga of True Renunciation - Karma Sanyas Yoga.
The current theme is : Experience of the world of truth within ourselves

Kindly post:

Verse 17 Ganeshaji

Selections for Reflections

11 Vigheshaji

Verses for Memorisation

17 For all

Regards
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sganesh0112 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:51 am

Hari Om! Pranams to all!

5-17 Tad-buddhyas tadaatmaanas tannishthaas tat-paraayanaah |
Gacchhantyapunaraavrittim jnaananirdhoota kalmashaah ||


Tat-buddhayah – intellect absorbed in That, tad-aatmanah – their Self being That.
Tat-nishtha – established in That, tat-paraayanaah –with That for their Supreme Goal, gacchhanti – go, apunaraavrittim – not again returning, jnaana nirdhoota kalmashaah – those whose sins have been dispelled by Knowledge.

Intellect absorbed in That, their Self being That, established in That, with That for their Supreme Goal, they go whence there is no return, their sins dispelled by Knowledge.

Pranams

S Ganesh
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby vignesh » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:15 pm

Selection for Reflection:

11.God -Realization is the last stage of growth. To be the Supreme is the goal of all evolutionary struggles, to achieve which the ego, in its self -evolution, roamed about so long in its self-created world of finitude and imperfections.

regards
vignesh
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby uma » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:44 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Here is the verse 17 for our discussion. Please post your thoughts,
your study notes, reflections on this verse.

Offering this garland of verses to you O Krishna with Love from all of
us...please help us in our studies.
============================================================

तद्बुद्धयस्तदात्मानस्तन्निष्ठास्तपरायणा: ।
गच्छ्न्त्यपुनरावृत्तिं ज्ञाननिर्धूतकल्मषा: ।।१७॥

Tad-buddhyas tadaatmaanas tannishthaas tat-paraayanaah |
Gacchhantyapunaraavrittim jnaananirdhoota kalmashaah ||

तद् बुद्धय:-Tat-buddhayah – intellect absorbed in That, तद् आत्मन: -tad-aatmanah – their Self being That.
तत् निष्ठा-Tat-nishtha – established in That, तत परायणा:-tat-paraayanaah –with That for their Supreme Goal, गच्छन्ति -gacchhanti – go, अपुनर् आवृत्तिम्- apunaraavrittim – not again returning, ज्ञान निर्धूत कल्मषा:-jnaana nirdhoota kalmashaah – those whose sins have been dispelled by Knowledge.

17. Intellect absorbed in That, their Self being That, established in That, with That for their Supreme Goal, they go whence there is no return, their sins dispelled by Knowledge.

Selection for Reflection:

11.God -Realization is the last stage of growth. To be the Supreme is the goal of all evolutionary struggles, to achieve which the ego, in its self -evolution, roamed about so long in its self-created world of finitude and imperfections.

Verse for Memorisation:

तद्बुद्धयस्तदात्मानस्तन्निष्ठास्तपरायणा: ।
गच्छ्न्त्यपुनरावृत्तिं ज्ञाननिर्धूतकल्मषा: ।।१७॥

Tad-buddhyas tadaatmaanas tannishthaas tat-paraayanaah |
Gacchhantyapunaraavrittim jnaananirdhoota kalmashaah ||
uma
 
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Re: Geeta Chapter 5:Karma Sannyas Yoga-Yoga of True Renunciation

Postby sathiavathi » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:08 am

HARI OM

VERSE-17

In this verse lord declares the means to attain that supra-consciousness awareness that illuminate one's intellegence and leads directly to moksha
or liberation from the material existance.Lord Krishna uses the word tad-budhayas to refer those who have their intellegence,intellect and
consciousness fixed in meditation of Atma tattva or realisation of the soul. The word tat-Atmanas refer to those who make the Atma or soul the
singular focus of loving reflection. Intellect is merely the machinations of the mind but consciousness includes emotion which facilitates loving
devotion with in the heart. The word tad-nisthas refer to those who enthesiastically follow the vedic culture and perform all that is necessary
to attain the supreme.THe word tat-parayanah means those whose sole noble aim is devotion to the Atma.The cultivation of vedic knowledge gradually
develops consciousness and removes all taint and dross.Those possessing the before stated qualifications when perfecting them attains the Atma
which is irrevocable. Once knowledge is realized it insures that there is no reverting back to the conditioned and restrictive levels of consciousness
which are of the nature nescience and ignorance.In short those whose illutions are dispelled by knowledge, who are endowed with spiritual intellegence,
who meditate on the innerself, whose faith is fixed,and who have taken complete shelter of the ultimate truth attain liberation from the material existance.
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