Topic of Prakriti

Re: Topic of Bliss

Postby sunilgoel29 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:10 pm

Hari Om!

This is in reference to the class of 15th Jan. In the commentary by Swami Tejomayananda ji, Swamiji says that Prakriti, the primordial cause of creation consists of pure Sattva, pure Rajas and pure Tamas. He goes on to say that the three are individually pure and not mixed before "creation" and that pure unmixed Sattva is Maya. Could someone tell when the three gunas were unmixed, then what was pure Rajas and pure Tamas called......is there any term to define them or could we just say that they were in an unmanifest pure condition in the hrinyagarbha? But then how could they remain in one potent hrinyagarbha and be not mixed?

I hope this question is not silly.

Thank you and Pranaams!

In Shri Guru Smriti

Sunil
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Re: Topic of Prakriti

Postby Padmaja » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:53 am

Hari Om. Pranam.

Let's look at the context first -

Context was, "Why am I unable to realize my blissful Self?". There is a peculiar situation - "we love ourself which indicates that we know our blissful Self", yet "we don't know our blissful Self because we constantly desire outside objects". So the question was - What is the obstacle in my knowing blissful Self in its full import?

This was explained with an example of a father who "knows his child is chanting in the group" yet "he is not able to specifically detect his son's distinct chanting voice in the chorus group". The obstacle here is "chorus chanting" due to which his son's voice is mixed with other children's voices.

Similarly, in case of realizing blissful Self, if the sattva (knowledge) was pure and unmixed; we would know blissful Self in its full import. However when sattva is mixed with rajas and tamas(ignorance) we don't know blissful Self in its full import. Since the context is 'Knowlege' we are focusing on Sattva. Prakriti has two aspects with respect to sattva - Pure and Impure.

1. Prakriti in Samya Avastha (equipoise state) where sattva is shuddha, unmixed, separate, pure so Self Knowledge is possible.
2. Prakriti in Vaishamya Avastha (Mixed state) where sattva is avishuddha, mixed with rajas and tamas, impure so there is obstruction to Self knowledge.

Regarding question about how three things can remain together yet unmixed, an example comes to mind. A casual eater may just say "This sambar is not tasting right !" . However an expert cook can detect savory taste of salt, sour taste of tamarind and hot taste of chillies distinctly, and he can adjust their proportion at will as needed. Similarly jiva is deluded due to his upadhi Avidya(where sattva is mixed with rajas and tamas) and doesn't know why he is seeking objects outside. On the other hand, Lord is all knowing and wields Maya at will due to his superior upadhi Maya (where sattva is pure, unmixed).

On another note, let's not bring Hiranyagarbha in this discussion. Pujya Swamiji will explain Hiranyagarbha when that topic comes.

In His Loving Grace
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Re: Topic of Prakriti

Postby sunilgoel29 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:32 pm

Thank you so much Padmaja ji. Your explanation is profound.

Hari Om and Pranaams!

In Shri Guru Smriti


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Tamas in Prakriti

Postby sunilgoel29 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:32 am

From Sunil Goel

Hari Om!

If total sattva guna of the five subtle elements is the antahakarana and the total rajo guna is the prana shakti, then what is total tamas called and how is it manifested? If it is the Jagat, does that mean that the individual tamasic gunas of the five subtle elements only play a role in the grossification of five elements?

Secondly, when the three gunas are in equal proportion, the five elements are in an unmanifest state in the Prakriti, right?

Thirdly, since Prakriti is without a beginning just as Maya is without a beginning, does that mean that in the beginning-less cycle, since both Maya and Brahman co-existed, there was dvaita, even though that dvaita is removed upon knowledge as far as the Jiva is concerned?

Fourthly, if Brahman "willed" to be many and blessed Maya to become Ishwara, then wouldn't it become an activity for Brahman, as Brahman is supposed to be desire-less?

I need a little help in these concepts please, even though much may be clarified in pujya Swamiji's subsequent webinars.

Gratefully, in Shri Guru Smriti

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Re: Topic of Prakriti

Postby sunilgoel29 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:09 pm

From Sunil Goel

Hari Om!

I think there is a need for correction in my last post. I mixed up tamas with grossification. I think actually, just like total Sattva brings about knowledge/antahkarana and total Rajas brings about activity/pranas, similarly total Tamas brings about inertia which is the Universe. At this point the universe would be in an unmanifest state. And then in the Universe, which comprises of space, air, fire, water and earth, grossification takes place as per the panchikarana theory.

Further query

1. Since all this is taking place under Maya, does that mean this panchikarana is an inferred fact by way of backward analysis?
2. That what we are really trying to understand the working of Maya?
3. That, if we know that Maya is mithya, this study of Maya will only become academic ?

Thank you and Pranaams!

In Shri Guru Smriti

Sunil Goel
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Re: Topic of Prakriti

Postby sunilgoel29 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:16 pm

From Sunil Goel

Hari Om!

In my last post, I had wondered that the study of Maya/creation may be academic as it is an inferred theory. Having contemplated on this, I now realize that it is a very essential part of the teaching and will equip me to handle my goal of jivan Muktih, in a much more organized fashion.

In Shri Guru Smriti

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Re: Topic of Prakriti

Postby sunilgoel29 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:29 am

Hari Om!

Some queries please.

1. How did the unmanifest Prakriti remain unmanifested in the consciousness?

2. Is Prakriti part of the methodology of superimposition? If that is so, we can understand that it is a temporary variable to prove a point.

3. It is said that the compassionate Lord has created this world for our recreation. Is that the purpose of the Lord?

4. In Pujya Swami Tejomayananda ji's commentary on verse 17, he explains that Pragna knows all except his true nature. I don't understand this. Can someone kindly explain this please?

5. I would appreciate some comments on my earlier posts under this subject please.

Kind regards

Sunil
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Re: Topic of Prakriti

Postby srammohan » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:49 am

Hari Om Sunil

Your questions are being responded to the best of my ability to bring some clarity to the subject. Please understand that we are trying to use words to describe that which is anirvachaniya indescribable.

Prakruthi is just a name given to the power of Brahman to (as though) project it self as manifold. In manifesting this power and also identifying with it, Brahman comes to be called as Easwara and the expression of the power is given the name Maya. Maya is of 3 Gunas and inexplicable. In the close proximity of Easwara it's is seen to be pure satva and when distanced ( in terms of knowledge) far away from easwara it becomes malina satva is called avidya. Brahman now identified with Avidya comes to be called Jiva.
When Maya exhibits its Rajasic aspect Easwara (who had earlier identified with Satvic aspect of maya) now identifies with it's Rajasic aspect too and is now called Hiranyagarbha . When Hiranyagabha already identified with Satvic and Rajasic aspects of Maya when he identifies with Tamasic aspect of Maya comes to be called Virat.

The same thing happens in the microcosm (vyasti) level too - only at this level knowledge that he is Brahman is not available to a Jiva. So he takes the identification to be real and suffers.

Please revisit all your queries on this subject in the light of the above and see if they are addressed.

The response to your query as to how प्राज्ञः knows all except his true nature. प्राज्ञः is the name given to Brahman/ आत्मा / consciousness)when it is identified with कारणशरीर or अविद्या . अविद्या has two powers one to hide the truth and project the false. So all that is going to be projected in waking and dream states is available to प्राज्ञः (in un-manifest form) in that way he is प्रकर्षेण ज्ञः – a special knower. Since he does not know his own self he is प्रकर्षेण अज्ञः – he is not knowing in that special was that his true nature is आत्मा.
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Re: Topic of Prakriti

Postby sunilgoel29 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:44 pm

Namaste and Hari Om!

Thank you so much for your explanation. I do understand that describing something which is anirvachniya is a herculean task and we should accept the scriptures if nothing else works. I'm reminded of the following excerpt from the commentary on Panchadasi by Swami Swahananda Ji in respect to verse 27:

"It is a dogmatic statement that can neither be proved nor disproved, at least in our present state of knowledge. The verification of this dogmatic statement may come when physics will merge into psychology, and psychology into physics".

Even though this is in reference to Panchikarana, the same may be applicable to Maya. But still, the intellect in us, wants to know the hows and whys not just out of personal curiosity but so that one can dissolve all the concepts into Brahman ultimately and realize without a doubt that there is Brahman only.

The basic understanding must have sprung from cause. It is what we see and experience, on the basis of which our Rishis and sages of prehistoric times must have started analyzing nature, and slowly and gradually, they must have kept making up the building blocks, so to say. It was not until sage Vyasa got all the literature together and compartmentalized the knowledge for easy understanding of the human beings. The Rishis of yore, no doubt, must have been endowed with special abilities for the discovery of knowledge. This endowment could only have come from the Lord, Brahman. Hence we say that Vedas are a breath of God. This part is my own logic and I can't give any reference to this......so I stand corrected please.

Ya Maya sa Maya means that what does not exist is Maya. Hence, I feel that whatever we are learning on Prakriti actually does not exist, but we are understanding a method which we are to negate later......superimposition and negation. This will resolve our mental doubts which we have as a Jiva. Once we reach the stage of Turiya, all these concepts will no longer matter to us.

So, I feel that this aspect should repeatedly be self-hammered by us into our intellects that we should not get lost in definitions and that our real target is something else. I am saying this because some people go to great lengths to memorize the features and numbers and tend to lose track early in their studies.

I just felt like emphasizing this. Kindly excuse me if I crossed my limits.

Kind regards

In Shri Guru Smriti

Sunil Goel
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