If the Suksma Sarira is a pointer to Consciousness .....

If the Suksma Sarira is a pointer to Consciousness .....

Postby RoopaSatish » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:12 pm

Hari Om

Today as I attended the webinar and listened to Swamiji’s explanation of Suksma Sarira as the linga Sarira - indicator of Consciousness of Atman, suddenly a new perspective struck me. I would like to share it with all in the forum and seek your comments.

If the Suksma Sarira can be a pointer to Consciousness (Chit in Sanskrit)....

Could we consider ?
 The Stula Sarira as a pointer to Sat (Existence – or the “Is-ness”). Because even a dead body ‘IS’.
 The Karana Sarira as a pointer to Ananda (Bliss – as we experience bliss in deep sleep and it is called Bliss Sheath)

So the 3 bodies could also be seen as pointers to the “Sat-Chit-Ananda” nature of Atman.

Does that mean Atman = Gross body + Subtle body + Causal Body ? Of course not.
But each of these bodies can act as a pointer to a certain nature of Atman.

Is this understanding correct? Have you all come across this this approach elsewhere pls ?

(Ofcourse, at the background we always keep in mind the fact that Atman cannot be described by words and known by our intellect – that would limit the Unlimited – so these are not qualities of Atman but merely pointers to the nature of Atman.)

Thank you - Hari Om

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Re: If the Suksma Sarira is a pointer to Consciousness .....

Postby Umabala » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:31 am

Harih Om!
I am just trying to share my understanding regarding the question and what I learnt from the teachings of Mahatmas. We will learn more about sthula sarira as we proceed further with the text.
As long as I identify with the individual reflected consciousness in my mind (identifying with my mind) and I try to understand the totality with the limited mind, it leads to frustration. So, the Sastra acts as a mirror to reflect my true nature of SatChitAnanda and also the mirror helps me to correct any flaws in my reflected face. My original nature is Absolute Happiness and Peace.But, I am not able to abide in that truth because of the imperfect understanding from my part and the scriptures reflect that imperfection and help me to correct it. For this whole process to happen I need the grace of Iswara and Guru in the form of teachings. The antahkarana is the place (also acts like a mirror to reflect the Consciousness) where the understanding of teachings can happen as it has the blessings of Consciousness in the form of reflected consciousness. In that sense, Sukshma Sarira acts as pointer towards the Reality. This is one of the reasons to say Sukshma sarira is called Linga sarira or pointer. Pujya Swamiji also explained two more reasons in our class.
Karana sarira or causal body is the one, which is blissfully ignorant of the bliss.
Sthoola sarira or Gross body is the Sukha Duhkhadi Bhogaayatanam. (it is the abode of experience of pleasure and pain etc.)
This is the understanding that I learnt from Tattva Bodha text.
Samartha Sadguru Charanavindaarpanamastu.

In Gurusmaranam,
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Re: If the Suksma Sarira is a pointer to Consciousness .....

Postby Anirudha » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:28 am

Hari Om,

To me this interpretation appears to be valid. I remember being told in my studies, "To be perceived is to exist", not the exact quote I am afraid. Hence, Sthula Sarira, which is perceived by the senses, is definitely perceived, and hence said to exist.

One issue is about the definition of "exist", the scriptures use the word, "sat" which has a different meaning.

I will appreciate listening to others on this topic.

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Re: If the Suksma Sarira is a pointer to Consciousness .....

Postby sunilgoel29 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Hari Om!

As far as my limited knowledge goes, I have never heard about gross or causal bodies to be pointers directly. Perception depends upon whose point of view we are talking from...is it the individual or is it Ishwara? Or even Brahman? For the Jiva, of course, every perception, feeling, thought and object exist. Upon enquiry, we realize that it is the consciousness, Brahman, enlivening my antahkarana and bringing sentiency to my knowing principle. It is this knowing principle, which for me, exists as long as I exist and it is this existence which is sat. Gross body, by itself, is not sat as it doesn't exist in all the three periods of time. As a pointer, it's not only the gross body but in fact anything perceptible that will point to the existence/isness of God.

Karana sharira is a temporary vehicle where all our very strong likes and dislikes are stored. Karana sharira and sukshama sharira have Chitta and ahamkara which is common to both. The sthoola and sukshama shariras are temporarily resolved in the karana sharira every time we are in deep sleep, taking us away from samsara and our likes dislikes, which can be compared to a state of bliss. But it is not the "live" bliss of total union which can be obtained only as phala of jivanmukti. Hence, I am not sure what will be the answer to whether causal body is a pointer to bliss or not.

Satchitananda is a term used for Brahman and Satyam-Gnanam-Anantam is mostly used for the Jiva and it is our endeavor to realize that both are identical. Sat means existence, chit means sentiency and ananda means infinite completeness and infinite love for the self. Satyam leads to sat, gnanam leads to the understanding of chit and anantam leads us to the infinite ananda.

Good interaction.

Kind regards

In Shri Guru Smriti

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Re: If the Suksma Sarira is a pointer to Consciousness .....

Postby subbugnanam » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:50 am

Hari Om,
This is A.V.Anantha Subramaniam.

Refer to RoopaSatish »POST dated Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:12 pm
I would like to share my view on the two points as under:
1. The word pointer will never become the object to which it is pointing.
2. None can point towards heat, smell etc but can point towards that which is the cause of heat or smell.
3. None can be in a position to point to the SAT-CHIT-ANANDA which is formless and infinite.
Refer to Umabala »POST dated Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:31 am
One of the statements made in this post is
“”The Antahkarana is the place (also acts like a mirror) to reflect the Consciousness. ---Sukshma Sarira acts as pointer towards the Reality””
My views are as under:
Sukshma sarira i.e subtle body i.e. linga sarira have 17 components. Such as 5 Organs of perception, Intellect, Mind, 5 organs of action and 5 vital forces (prana). How can these 17 components perceive infinite. It can only infer.
Refer to Anirudha POST Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:28 am
One issue is about the definition of "exist", “Is_ness” the scriptures use the word, "sat" which has a different meaning.
That which exists permanently is called EXISTANCE-CONCIOUSNESS. All others are temporary in nature.
sunilgoel29 in his post on Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:31 pm
has explained to sort out various points raised by all. But we may need to do more contemplation while going through the lectures ahead of us till we become a Jnani.
I am giving below a bit of my thought flow.
Good smell cannot be felt if it is overshadowed by bad smell. If the source of bad smell is identified and removed, the good smell will pervade. No one will be in a position to point towards the SMELL To achieve this one may need someone to point to the source of bad smell or sukshma sarira and sthula sarira takes efforts to locate the source of bad smell and remove it. The same sarira, instead of removing the originator of bad smell, may spray good smell to suppress the bad smell. But the Intellect or antakharana will warn that it is not a permanent solution. If proper contemplation is done, with the help of Satsang, GURU will be in a position to remove the IGNORANCE i.e. bad smell.
Hari Om, With regards,
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